richard dawkins wants to arrest the pope

[lenko]

dinosaurs don't exist, satan put the fossils there ot make people not believe in god and fall into his trap

hahaha i was actually taught this in church

but the weird thing was that in my church's version god actually put the fossils there. why? nobody knew, of course

a 'test'.

[rtil]

dinosaurs don't exist, satan put the fossils there ot make people not believe in god and fall into his trap

hahaha i was actually taught this in church

but the weird thing was that in my church's version god actually put the fossils there. why? nobody knew, of course

a 'test'.

oh ya that was it to test our faith!!!!!!! haha silly god u almost got me there

[Fuzz]

dinosaurs don't exist, satan put the fossils there ot make people not believe in god and fall into his trap

hahaha i was actually taught this in church

but the weird thing was that in my church's version god actually put the fossils there. why? nobody knew, of course

a 'test'.

oh ya that was it to test our faith!!!!!!! haha silly god u almost got me there

[emanhattan]

dinosaurs don't exist, satan put the fossils there ot make people not believe in god and fall into his trap

hahaha i was actually taught this in church

but the weird thing was that in my church's version god actually put the fossils there. why? nobody knew, of course

a 'test'.

oh ya that was it to test our faith!!!!!!! haha silly god u almost got me there

see thats exactly what im trying to say.

I think a lot of the credibility of the church has been lost not because of the religion itself, but because of stupid claims that people in catcholic churches/priests say.

[rtil]

well it's hard for the church to accept scientific evidence that challenges the historical accuracy of the bible, which is hardly accurate in the first place

[emanhattan]

well it's hard for the church to accept scientific evidence that challenges the historical accuracy of the bible, which is hardly accurate in the first place

exactly I mean

there is no reason not to acknowledge these facts (evolution, big bang,etc), so why do these dumb fuckers make up even more explanations?

I have never met any genuine creationists but if i do id probably think they are very dumb

[creamcorn]

ok let me put it this way:
why saying that you know FOR A FACT that god doesnt exists is the dumbest thing you can ever say:

mass cant be created or destroyed? of course not. not with our hands and tools! not with the system of units we discovered using our eyes and hands and brains
you cant prove god exists? of course not: not with our eyes
because hes supernatural: his existance or his role with the creation of the universe or how he watches over it is SUPERNATURAL: we cant see or prove it with what we have, because all we have is the NATURAL

so in the end it all comes down to this: either you believe that all we see with our eyes and all we come to understand with our brains is all there is; or if theres something more than that.

all the prove against god will be something like this:
how do you know that the supernatural doesnt exist?
- because i cant see it
how do you know that only that which you see exists?
-because there is nothing else!
how do you know that?
-because i cant see it

ETC
all other arguments go the same as the above, only each other time you dont use sight or light but sound or any other unity of measurement that weve discovered using our eyes and brains. can you see whats wrong with the above?

whereas religion goes like this:
how do you god exists?
-because i have faith in him

so in the end: being atheistic is just as much a choice as being theistic is: you choose to believe that all you see is all there is and the evidence you have is all you see because thats all there is and you know that based on the fact that you cant see anything else etc etc

possible arguments against this:
-certainly works to religions benefit!
-everything we discover through scientific research is a fact
-yeah well you rely on blind faith, i rely on what i perseive to be true
-la! la! la! la! la!

is that the best you can come up with? it only proves my point that atheism is a choice and either you choose to live in a world where there is no justice, no hope, no reward and no higher purpose, nothing but this short life and nothing after it and youre just a worthless tiny little insignifigant speck in a big universe that doesnt care about you or your shit.

- religion just wants to control me! religion says the world is 4000 years old and that dinosaurs didnt exist!

that is only because you have experience one version of one religion, thats all i have to say

-if god exists and he knows whats gonna happen, then we have no free will

if god exists, he knows the future like in this scenario: first i travel to 10 minutes in the future using time travel, then i look at what you wrote on that piece of paper. i write it down and go back 10 minutes. i ask you to write down whatever you want in 10 minutes. after youre done i show you my piece of paper, proving that i knew what youre gonna write.
god is like that, time doesnt affect him, he doesnt exist 10 million years more than he did 10 million years ago, he is timeless

please respond

[Wasim]

well done chicken boy  

[lenko]

there is no justice, no hope, no reward and no higher purpose, nothing but this short life and nothing after it and youre just a worthless tiny little insignifigant speck in a big universe that doesnt care about you or your shit.

here's the thing - why SHOULD there be universal justice? Why SHOULD there be a 'reward'?

On the flipside, why should someone go off gallavanting saving elephants and following morals and wasting their own life doing things they might not want to do, in order to please some high lord and gain access to an eternal kingdom that they can't actually be sure even exists?

[lenko]

it also makes me wonder - are some of the 'nice' people in this earth genuinely positive-natured, social animals who wish to help their fellow species, or are they just people putting up this facade and performing set tasks in order to gain access to this cloud kingdom once they pop their clogs?

[creamcorn]

why should there be justice? i dont know you tell me!

wasting your life? either you choose to believe that this life is all there is, or you choose to believe that there is something afterwards.
if you 'waste' your life serving god (which i really disagree with) and in the end there is no god what does it matter? youre dead and there is nothing
but if you did waste your life NOT serving god, and there is a god in the end, then youre in trouble

saying it like this probably makes you think that the chance is 50/50, the only thing thats gonna make you more sure of the chance that there is no god is arrogance and the other is faith

and theyre not putting up a facade (at least, thats not what youre supposed to do if youre religious) you CHOOSE to do gods bidding and do nice things because you think its right and that it makes sense. and either way, a helping hand is a helping hand.

[Shida]

chicken I can't really keep debating against you, because you keep making a straw man out of the atheist viewpoint and use it as a reason why we should follow religion. this in my opinion, leads to the cyclic nature of the posts on this thread now.

just to clear things up for you; atheists believe in justice, just not divine justice. we look to our own laws and government to provide justice to the people, as imperfect as it might be. atheists are also not without hope. we see the world is imperfect, and we hope (and then act on that hope if we so wish) to see that it is improved for everyone by people wanting to help people. humanists might be a more fitting word for the atheist view.

[creamcorn]

chicken I can't really keep debating against you, because you keep making a straw man out of the atheist viewpoint and use it as a reason why we should follow religion. this in my opinion, leads to the cyclic nature of the posts on this thread now.

just to clear things up for you; atheists believe in justice, just not divine justice. we look to our own laws and government to provide justice to the people, as imperfect as it might be. atheists are also not without hope. we see the world is imperfect, and we hope (and then act on that hope if we so wish) to see that it is improved for everyone by people wanting to help people. humanists might be a more fitting word for the atheist view.

you cant deny that being atheistic doesnt come with those things i listed
theists believe in justice (we enforce our laws too you know) AND in divine justice(for those who are above our own laws), which makes the whole justice thing complete, but if you dont want to believe thats its complete; thats your choice

and i cant see how atheists have hope, hope for other peoples short lives yes but no hope for your eternal life(because you dont even believe in it)

[lenko]

and i cant see how atheists have hope, hope for other peoples short lives yes but no hope for your eternal life(because you dont even believe in it)

how about hope for the survival of our species? hope that we will create a better future for our ancestors? hope that we will eventually expand from this one planet and start unravelling the great mystery that is the universe?

[creamcorn]

\\\'life-ist\\\' is a more fitting word because you only care about this life, because you believe there isnt anything else

and i cant see how atheists have hope, hope for other peoples short lives yes but no hope for your eternal life(because you dont even believe in it)

how about hope for the survival of our species? hope that we will create a better future for our ancestors? hope that we will eventually expand from this one planet and start unravelling the great mystery that is the universe?

yes but that picture isnt complete either. what about YOUR better future?
religion doesnt say we should be careless of our grandchildren and our species and other lives on earth, we should be selfless in this world. we should care about this life AND the afterlife

[lenko]

'life-ist' is a more fitting word because you only care about this life, because you believe there isnt anything else

that's a foolish generalization - i'm quite open to the possibility of another plane of existence or time or space that we might enter once we leave 'this' life. a return to the chaos from whence we came or something. however, i don't believe whatever eventually happens to you there would be dictated by how you spent your time on the physical plane - after all, why should it? what if morals are completely irrelevant in this next plane of existence?

[creamcorn]

\\\'life-ist\\\' is a more fitting word because you only care about this life, because you believe there isnt anything else

that\\\'s a foolish generalization - i\\\'m quite open to the possibility of another plane of existence or time or space that we might enter once we leave \\\'this\\\' life. a return to the chaos from whence we came or something.

youre contradicting yourself
you may be open to the possibility of another plane of existance, but youre not doing anything for it. because you dont care about it-> you only care about this life.
so its not a foolish generalization

however, i don\\\'t believe whatever eventually happens to you there would be dictated by how you spent your time on the physical plane - after all, why should it? what if morals are completely irrelevant in this next plane of existence?

if you like to believe that then so be it, i like to believe that it does matter.
its all a matter of choice whether you choose that it matters what you do here or you choose that all of it doesnt matter

enjoy your stay!

[Kött]

Those people who are not religios but believe that there must be something, responsible for the creation of all this or that there must be something after death than just believing in pure emptiness are no atheists, they are called agnostics. And I'm really sure that most of you who already declared themselves atheists actually are agnostics.


I think that pretty much everyone has his own religion, even if he associates himself with a religion, he will most likely create his own subreligion. No one really takes every single bit of philosophy and rules a religion has seriously. Religious rules and morals are just a kind of golden thread that helps people to live their lifes easier.

[creamcorn]

Those people who are not religios but believe that there must be something, responsible for the creation of all this or that there must be something after death than just believing in pure emptiness are no atheists, they are called agnostics. And I'm really sure that most of you who already declared themselves atheists actually are agnostics.


I think that pretty much everyone has his own religion, even if he associates himself with a religion, he will most likely create his own subreligion. No one really takes every single bit of philosophy and rules a religion has seriously. Religious rules and morals are just a kind of golden thread that helps people to live their lifes easier.

being agnostic sounds pretty foolish to me. you believe there must be something yet you dont go out to discover what
if there is someone out there he mustve left a message behind and its up to you to go around and find which religion is the truth and makes the most sense

those who only practice part of their religion are also foolish, if you beleive in something you believe in the whole package. if you only pick out what you like and what is easy then you might as well be atheistic

[rtil]

how is agnosticism foolish? none of these gods have ever bothered to make themselves apparent in any way. agnosticism exists because of the effort god went through to make himself completely invisible if indeed one existed. sometimes a book of fairytales and the "god is in creation" stories aren't enough for people who aren't so naive.

and i can guarantee you don't follow your religion to the letter. nobody does - that's the point of theistic religion. that we are imperfect sinners who are incapable of achieving the perfect lifestyle that some higher power expects of us. therefore we need his forgiveness and must serve him and pay tribute to him until the day we die. it's a life of submission and a means of controlling people. how did you not figure this out already?

you don't seem to understand the benefits of atheism. you have to live a life in complete and utter fear that you may one day suffer eternally simply for being who you are. your motives are driven by the promise of eternal rewards.

atheists can live a life of happiness and peace knowing that all of that is nonsense. we do good from our heart, not because of a religion. we don't need religion as a crutch to validate our lives and our deeds.