richard dawkins wants to arrest the pope

[creamcorn]

how is agnosticism foolish? none of these gods have ever bothered to make themselves apparent in any way. agnosticism exists because of the effort god went through to make himself completely invisible if indeed one existed. sometimes a book of fairytales and the "god is in creation" stories aren't enough for people who aren't so naive.

how do you know that only the things that are apparent to us exist? religious people arent naive, its the atheists who are arrogant

and i can guarantee you don't follow your religion to the letter. nobody does - that's the point of theistic religion. that we are imperfect sinners who are incapable of achieving the perfect lifestyle that some higher power expects of us. therefore we need his forgiveness and must serve him and pay tribute to him until the day we die. it's a life of submission and a means of controlling people. how did you not figure this out already?

knowing that god will forgive you for your sins if you pray for forgiveness gives us hope and happyness
and by saying 'controlling people' who controls who? god controls us? if thats the case then youre saying that he exists. theres no controlling of theres no controller
other people could not be the controller for they could not have come up with this book, and im not talking about that book of fairy tales

you don't seem to understand the benefits of atheism. you have to live a life in complete and utter fear that you may one day suffer eternally simply for being who you are. your motives are driven by the promise of eternal rewards.

atheists can live a life of happiness and peace knowing that all of that is nonsense. we do good from our heart, not because of a religion. we don't need religion as a crutch to validate our lives and our deeds.

you dont live in utter fear except when youre atheistic and fear that god exists because then he will punsih you, and id rather believe that there can be a reward for me than believe that all there is is this life. this life is short and id be dumb if i waste this life only doing things i like and miss eternal life thats waiting for me

and how many times do i have to explain this: we dont do good because our religion says so, its a constant reminder to do good. if i didnt have goodness in my heart then i wouldnt believe that doing good is good.

also, goodness of our hearts? sounds like you believe that theres more to life than flesh and bones..

[creamcorn]

its your choice: slave of god but with an eternal reward afterwards, or a short life
theres no proof that either one of these is true or more likely than the other, as i have stated with that long post from before

its faith or no faith

[Shida]

I'll go for no faith then! Sounds more fun.

[rtil]

how is agnosticism foolish? none of these gods have ever bothered to make themselves apparent in any way. agnosticism exists because of the effort god went through to make himself completely invisible if indeed one existed. sometimes a book of fairytales and the "god is in creation" stories aren\\\'t enough for people who aren\\\'t so naive.

how do you know that only the things that are apparent to us exist? religious people arent naive, its the atheists who are arrogant

so...the search for knowledge is arrogant? should i instead reject modern teachings and emulate a lifestyle condoned by an ancient, irrelevant religious book on the notion that a god may one day punish me for not doing so? explain.

and i can guarantee you don\\\'t follow your religion to the letter. nobody does - that\\\'s the point of theistic religion. that we are imperfect sinners who are incapable of achieving the perfect lifestyle that some higher power expects of us. therefore we need his forgiveness and must serve him and pay tribute to him until the day we die. it\\\'s a life of submission and a means of controlling people. how did you not figure this out already?

knowing that god will forgive you for your sins if you pray for forgiveness gives us hope and happyness
and by saying \\\'controlling people\\\' who controls who? god controls us? if thats the case then youre saying that he exists. theres no controlling of theres no controller
other people could not be the controller for they could not have come up with this book, and im not talking about that book of fairy tales

no - god doesn\\\'t control people, religion does. even if there was a god, his "word" was interpreted by man. it\\\'s always been that way, and that\\\'s why religions are just as corrupt as anything else. religion has been used to brainwash and control millions of people throughout the ages.

and i\\\'m not suggesting a god exists. every time i mention god i\\\'m being hypothetical - hell i even imply that i am.

god only exists as an illusion created by man to explain things he doesn\\\'t understand in order to rationalize it.

you don\\\'t seem to understand the benefits of atheism. you have to live a life in complete and utter fear that you may one day suffer eternally simply for being who you are. your motives are driven by the promise of eternal rewards.

atheists can live a life of happiness and peace knowing that all of that is nonsense. we do good from our heart, not because of a religion. we don\\\'t need religion as a crutch to validate our lives and our deeds.

you dont live in utter fear except when youre atheistic and fear that god exists because then he will punsih you, and id rather believe that there can be a reward for me than believe that all there is is this life. this life is short and id be dumb if i waste this life only doing things i like and miss eternal life thats waiting for me

and how many times do i have to explain this: we dont do good because our religion says so, its a constant reminder to do good. if i didnt have goodness in my heart then i wouldnt believe that doing good is good.

also, goodness of our hearts? sounds like you believe that theres more to life than flesh and bones..

"goodness of the heart" is a figure of speech. stop taking every bit of imagery you can shove a religious meaning onto and try to make it an arguing point, it doesn\\\'t work. obviously our heart is just an organ that pumps blood through our body. it\\\'d be like when i say to someone "you don\\\'t have a soul", doesn\\\'t imply i think they have a soul, it means i think they\\\'re a mean, careless person.

but surely you know this and are just playing whatever cards you can at this point.

atheists don\\\'t fear god because atheism is a belief that there is no god. so what you say doesn\\\'t make any sense.

if there were a god when i died, i do not see why they would punish me for not believing they existed, nor do i think i would be judged at all. if i did believe in a god, i would imagine them to not care about humans or the earth in the least.

i will never understand why you think a life wasted is a life lived to the fullest, where you got to experience everything you wanted and more, and would rather waste away on your knees praying and begging to some imaginary man in the sky for forgiveness for simply being human.

theres no proof that either one of these is true or more likely than the other

you don\\\'t know how wrong you are

i hope someday you find out

[emanhattan]

i will never understand why you think a life wasted is a life lived to the fullest, where you got to experience everything you wanted and more, and would rather waste away on your knees praying and begging to some imaginary man in the sky for forgiveness for simply being human.

nobody believes a life lived to the fullest is a waste of life.

we dont believe in god because we fear punishment, we believe in god because we feel that he drives us away from the bad things in life and encourages us to keep being good. I dont see god as an anrgy man in the sky forcing me to do things.

I believe heaven is not an imaginary magical place in the sky, its a state of mind and well being you have during your life. some call it nirvana, some south american cultures reffered to it as "the dream of heaven" in earth.

Again, some people, (not me since I dont generally practice this), find praying as a surce of health,spiritual and mental piece, not necessarily asking for forgiveness. I dont see anything wrong with that.

but like i said before, if sitting to meditate 4 hours and praying makes you be in a positive state of mind, if THAT makes you happy, independently of if you do it because of god or for yourself, my god, just do it. Religion can cause positive reactions in people who have moral principles and believe in such things.

[creamcorn]

how is agnosticism foolish? none of these gods have ever bothered to make themselves apparent in any way. agnosticism exists because of the effort god went through to make himself completely invisible if indeed one existed. sometimes a book of fairytales and the "god is in creation" stories aren't enough for people who aren't so naive.

how do you know that only the things that are apparent to us exist? religious people arent naive, its the atheists who are arrogant

so...the search for knowledge is arrogant? should i instead reject modern teachings and emulate a lifestyle condoned by an ancient, irrelevant religious book on the notion that a god may one day punish me for not doing so? explain.

no thats not what im saying. the knowledge that we have gained is as true as all the things you see around you, and that doesnt mean that its not true, but as far as religion goes, it means that its not EVERYTHING
its arrogant to think that there is nothing out there that we cant see simply because YOU cant see it, to refuse to think that there is something out there that you can never find out about, which is the supernatural
and the book may be ancient, but its not irrelevant. read something else than the bible before you say that

and i can guarantee you don't follow your religion to the letter. nobody does - that's the point of theistic religion. that we are imperfect sinners who are incapable of achieving the perfect lifestyle that some higher power expects of us. therefore we need his forgiveness and must serve him and pay tribute to him until the day we die. it's a life of submission and a means of controlling people. how did you not figure this out already?

knowing that god will forgive you for your sins if you pray for forgiveness gives us hope and happyness
and by saying 'controlling people' who controls who? god controls us? if thats the case then youre saying that he exists. theres no controlling of theres no controller
other people could not be the controller for they could not have come up with this book, and im not talking about that book of fairy tales

no - god doesn't control people, religion does. even if there was a god, his "word" was interpreted by man. it's always been that way, and that's why religions are just as corrupt as anything else. religion has been used to brainwash and control millions of people throughout the ages.

and i'm not suggesting a god exists. every time i mention god i'm being hypothetical - hell i even imply that i am.

god only exists as an illusion created by man to explain things he doesn't understand in order to rationalize it.

god created religion and if god exists than he would not make his word to be misunderstandable. and if we do interpreted it wrong then were just dropping rules and twisting words to our benefit and leisure

you don't seem to understand the benefits of atheism. you have to live a life in complete and utter fear that you may one day suffer eternally simply for being who you are. your motives are driven by the promise of eternal rewards.

atheists can live a life of happiness and peace knowing that all of that is nonsense. we do good from our heart, not because of a religion. we don't need religion as a crutch to validate our lives and our deeds.

you dont live in utter fear except when youre atheistic and fear that god exists because then he will punsih you, and id rather believe that there can be a reward for me than believe that all there is is this life. this life is short and id be dumb if i waste this life only doing things i like and miss eternal life thats waiting for me

and how many times do i have to explain this: we dont do good because our religion says so, its a constant reminder to do good. if i didnt have goodness in my heart then i wouldnt believe that doing good is good.

also, goodness of our hearts? sounds like you believe that theres more to life than flesh and bones..

"goodness of the heart" is a figure of speech. stop taking every bit of imagery you can shove a religious meaning onto and try to make it an arguing point, it doesn't work. obviously our heart is just an organ that pumps blood through our body. it'd be like when i say to someone "you don't have a soul", doesn't imply i think they have a soul, it means i think they're a mean, careless person.

but surely you know this and are just playing whatever cards you can at this point.

atheists don't fear god because atheism is a belief that there is no god. so what you say doesn't make any sense.

if there were a god when i died, i do not see why they would punish me for not believing they existed, nor do i think i would be judged at all. if i did believe in a god, i would imagine them to not care about humans or the earth in the least.

i will never understand why you think a life wasted is a life lived to the fullest, where you got to experience everything you wanted and more, and would rather waste away on your knees praying and begging to some imaginary man in the sky for forgiveness for simply being human.

youre right about the figure of speech, and youre right about the fear, those who believe in god do fear him but also believe that he is all-forgiving. noone enters heaven by his deeds alone, but because god is merciful, thats what we believe
our fear for god is like when you get someone you really love a present and fear he or she might not like it, only in our case, the thing we give god are our lives

and i disagree that a life where you do everything you desire equals a life lived to the fullest. this is only true of you believe that all we live for is to have fun

theres no proof that either one of these is true or more likely than the other

you don't know how wrong you are

i hope someday you find out

give me ANY proof that there are no supernatural things like angels and god

[emanhattan]

p.s. Also some christians, and, well, other religous people, DO see god as an anrgy man in the sky forcing them to pray to him and DO HIS BIDDING.
i think this is one of the many missinterpretations of religion, and specially a phenomena of the human condition of fearing punishment.

[rtil]

nobody believes a life lived to the fullest is a waste of life.

chicken does.

we dont believe in god because we fear punishment, we believe in god because we feel that he drives us away from the bad things in life and encourages us to keep being good. I dont see god as an anrgy man in the sky forcing me to do things.

but god is a very angry god. have you read the bible? he killed millions of people on a whim for things he didn't like. what makes you think he's so merciful and kind now?

he even promised to slaughter those who don't believe in and worship him during his "final judgement".

I believe heaven is not an imaginary magical place in the sky, its a state of mind and well being you have during your life. some call it nirvana, some south american cultures reffered to it as "the dream of heaven" in earth.

that's all good and fine, but again, have you read the bible? heaven is described very clearly.

here's just one example. Isaiah 66:22-24:

"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

i bet you just can't wait to be worshiping god while looking at your dead descendants and friends that your god killed for not appeasing his self-serving ways.

Again, some people, (not me since I dont generally practice this), find praying as a surce of health,spiritual and mental piece, not necessarily asking for forgiveness. I dont see anything wrong with that.

but like i said before, if sitting to meditate 4 hours and praying makes you be in a positive state of mind, if THAT makes you happy, independently of if you do it because of god or for yourself, my god, just do it. Religion can cause positive reactions in people who have moral principles and believe in such things.

sure it can. but it's all in your mind. just like when people think god tells them to do things.

[creamcorn]

nobody believes a life lived to the fullest is a waste of life.

chicken does.

no i believe a life where you do all the things you desire isnt a life lived to the fullest


serving god is a life lived to the fullest, thats what i believe

[emanhattan]

nobody believes a life lived to the fullest is a waste of life.

here\\\'s just one example. Isaiah 66:22-24:

"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

I dont remember ever seeing this passage before but i dont think thats directed specifically towards non-believers, but to devils and evil men.

My christian education in home had a very different focus to the one portrayed in this passage you pasted, but the education that i recieved in school essentially portraied god as an asshole who did want to manipulate mankind etc, with passages similar to this one. my teachers were assholes with us and most of them did not aknowledge other religions as true or good. With time and growing up i realized that a lot of the things that these "good men" say are lies and comments formed by their prejudices on other people and life. And in order to manipulate the enormous ammount of kids in school they convince kids that they are small and meaningless towards gods plan, mere gears in the machine, to make them feel impotent and miserable, and justify their selfish acts. I was so miserable every day in that place, and so convinced that "god would hate me" if i didnt go trough christian education, that I kept being in that school for almost 4 fuckin years!!

One day I decided to leave it and move to an atheist school, and I wasnt recieved exactly with arms wide open, but in time they learned to accept my beliefs as part of me and i started to get along with these people. after that I was like "wow holy shit i wasted 4 years of my life in that place". Curiously enough, it was during my time in an atheist school where I developed my idea of god that I have today.

I have formed myself an image of god that isnt entirely depending on the bible nor in the christian church, and hey, i admit it, and a lot of christians admit it, a lot of the stuff that appears in the bible is whacky bublee do im god do what I say . As fas as I know the only thing that pisses god off is the breaking any of the 10 commandments (going agaisnt god).

I believe the bible has been interpreted,written and manipulated by angry men, similar to my ex-christian teachers, who are in frustration,resentment and fear towards the world.






that will be the last wall of text youll see from me i promise!

[rtil]

no thats not what im saying. the knowledge that we have gained is as true as all the things you see around you, and that doesnt mean that its not true, but as far as religion goes, it means that its not EVERYTHING
its arrogant to think that there is nothing out there that we cant see simply because YOU cant see it, to refuse to think that there is something out there that you can never find out about, which is the supernatural
and the book may be ancient, but its not irrelevant. read something else than the bible before you say that

i never said that if i can't see it with my naked eye that doesn't mean it is there.

i can't see atoms, molecules, magnetic fields, ultraviolet light, all kinds of things. but i know they are there. i know they are there because they can be observed, replicated and demonstrated scientifically and mathematically.

and we are always observing, discovering and improving new things thanks to the knowledge of those before us. that's how mankind becomes more technologically advanced. because of science, not because of a magical god in the sky.

a god never gave us everything. it's thanks to man you live in the world you do today.

god created religion and if god exists than he would not make his word to be misunderstandable. and if we do interpreted it wrong then were just dropping rules and twisting words to our benefit and leisure

but isn't your god supposed to be all knowing? if he knew people would misinterpret his word and use it to kill people, threaten people and control people, why did he give it to man? he's not making such a great name for himself these days. you'd think he'd do something about it if he's all powerful - especially now that man is learning we don't need him anymore.

youre right about the figure of speech, and youre right about the fear, those who believe in god do fear him but also believe that he is all-forgiving. noone enters heaven by his deeds alone, but because god is merciful, thats what we believe
our fear for god is like when you get someone you really love a present and fear he or she might not like it, only in our case, the thing we give god are our lives

yes i'm aware of what the fear of god is - it's a prevalent idea in the christian faith, which i was born into. the way you describe it is funny and also a good argument against not getting involved in religion as it sounds like a huge waste of time considering the effort and length of time it would take only to have the opportunity to be disappointed. for eternity.

and the 'god is merciful' thing is hard to believe, knowing the violent history of theistic religions.

and i disagree that a life where you do everything you desire equals a life lived to the fullest. this is only true of you believe that all we live for is to have fun

all humans desire is fun? this is news to me.

give me ANY proof that there are no supernatural things like angels and god

give me ANY proof there are no unicorns. no one has ever seen a unicorn, but there are stories about unicorns, and some of them say that they saw unicorns and that unicorns told them things 2,000 years ago. therefore, i believe in unicorns. you can't prove they don't exist, therefore they exist, and my argument is flawless.

this is an example of your argument on a smaller scale - which is a logical fallacy, but i'll humor you. the difference is that god invalidates his existence through man's description of him. there is substantial proof that god doesn't exist. enjoy educating yourself about the following:

• occam's razor
• omnipotence paradox
• omniscience paradox
• omnipresence paradox
• the theodice problem/the problem of evil
• ontological argument fallacy
• the problem of hell
• inconsistent triad

and, unlike with scientific theories, there is no factual evidence to suggest god exists in any way, so you can only wish he exists - not know. further, if god does exist, there is no way of knowing if he listens to you, hears you, or knows you exist. you can only speculate. it does not go beyond this. you must either accept your faith is blind, naive, not based on any facts or truths and live in ignorance of the overwhelming evidence against you, throw away logic, reason and rationality... or reject it all and live your life free of the crutch of religion.

[DrRumack]

life is all about suckin dick and swallowing the semen to create a feeling of acceptance between you and your lover

[Kött]

knowing that god will forgive you for your sins if you pray for forgiveness gives us hope and happyness

If god doesn't forgive for my minor sins because I haven't prayed enough or even dooms me because I have chosen the wrong religion he's a cuntnugget and in that case I don't want into his shitty bitty lil paradise anyway and will instead cheerfully go the path to hell.
If he was such a great guy he wouldn't want us to waste our lifes, worshipping him for nothing but the pure believe has no use at all.
The hordes of barbarians are coming. One guy falls on his knees and starts praying. Anotherone takes his Spear and his shield and beats the shit out of them.
Who has solved the problem? The praying guy who avoided the fight he feared by asking god to do the shit he was too lazy to even try to solve or the warrior who lost his life for his family, for his people and for this little prick?
And if you were god, whom would you rather send to heaven? The, according to his belief, sinless man who believes his prayer has given his men the strength to survive the fight or the less religious, maybe heathen warrior who has shed the blood of others and given his life to protect the ones he loved by actually trying to solve the problem actively?

Belief isn't a bad thing; it can give us lots of strength and believing that there is a higher being leading your sword, feather or guitar pick surely often helps. But belief isn't all that matters, not for this life and not for what comes after it. If you really believe in god, being the ultimate good being, you would as well believe that he wouldn't doom someone for having chosen the wrong religion, even if this person was the best, the most faithful and the most impeccable one that has ever lived in this world. But religions are intolerant. They don't accept each other and that is why I don't accept these religions and have my own worldview instead.


Though I'm not really religios, on paper I am Evangelic by the way which ironically actually fits to the above way of thinking... and even if it doesn't seem to be much different from being catholic... According to fuckheads like the pope I will go to hell for this coice once my life has ended.

[Wasim]

but isn't your god supposed to be all knowing? if he knew people would misinterpret his word and use it to kill people, threaten people and control people, why did he give it to man? he's not making such a great name for himself these days. you'd think he'd do something about it if he's all powerful - especially now that man is learning we don't need him anymore.

god created the world fully knowing that 1 way or another mankind would do some fucked up shit and you'd probably think God won't do anything, of course God takes action.. i mean just recently there was a huge earthquake that fucked up haiti even worse, it's been known that Haiti is one of the few countries thats been heavily worshipping the devil and been comitting all that voodoo there's WAY more of that in history. check out pompeii, it used to be one of the biggest places to commit sins and just fuck everything that walks, God eventually took action and wiped that shit out of the world. God takes action every single day. every day there are disasters, small, big, it could be a completly different kind of disaster etc. that where created by god usually those disasters are a wake up call, you know that you realise that life is short and that that shit can happen to you too.

[Mew_User]

Sex

[creamcorn]

no thats not what im saying. the knowledge that we have gained is as true as all the things you see around you, and that doesnt mean that its not true, but as far as religion goes, it means that its not EVERYTHING
its arrogant to think that there is nothing out there that we cant see simply because YOU cant see it, to refuse to think that there is something out there that you can never find out about, which is the supernatural
and the book may be ancient, but its not irrelevant. read something else than the bible before you say that

i never said that if i can't see it with my naked eye that doesn't mean it is there.

i can't see atoms, molecules, magnetic fields, ultraviolet light, all kinds of things. but i know they are there. i know they are there because they can be observed, replicated and demonstrated scientifically and mathematically.

which is an extension of our 'sight' or that which we can comprehend and understand and explain

and we are always observing, discovering and improving new things thanks to the knowledge of those before us. that's how mankind becomes more technologically advanced. because of science, not because of a magical god in the sky.

a god never gave us everything. it's thanks to man you live in the world you do today.

yes we are discovering more and more of that which god has given us

god created religion and if god exists than he would not make his word to be misunderstandable. and if we do interpreted it wrong then were just dropping rules and twisting words to our benefit and leisure

but isn't your god supposed to be all knowing? if he knew people would misinterpret his word and use it to kill people, threaten people and control people, why did he give it to man? he's not making such a great name for himself these days. you'd think he'd do something about it if he's all powerful - especially now that man is learning we don't need him anymore.

theres always gonna be evil in the world, partly because of satan
but he gave the few good ones among us a chance to go to heaven, thats why he has given it to us
and you may think we dont need him to life in this life, we need him in this life for the afterlife

youre right about the figure of speech, and youre right about the fear, those who believe in god do fear him but also believe that he is all-forgiving. noone enters heaven by his deeds alone, but because god is merciful, thats what we believe
our fear for god is like when you get someone you really love a present and fear he or she might not like it, only in our case, the thing we give god are our lives

yes i'm aware of what the fear of god is - it's a prevalent idea in the christian faith, which i was born into. the way you describe it is funny and also a good argument against not getting involved in religion as it sounds like a huge waste of time considering the effort and length of time it would take only to have the opportunity to be disappointed. for eternity.

and the 'god is merciful' thing is hard to believe, knowing the violent history of theistic religions.

the violent history isnt because of god, its because of man

god didnt create evil he created only good
evil just occurs when there is no good, just like how a shadow comes where there is no light, cold where there is no warmth

and i disagree that a life where you do everything you desire equals a life lived to the fullest. this is only true of you believe that all we live for is to have fun

all humans desire is fun? this is news to me.

fun, or anything you desire. its a matter of how you define 'living to the fullest'
you define it as doing what you like for the sake of this life
i define it doing what i like, which is using it to try and get a place in heaven

give me ANY proof that there are no supernatural things like angels and god

give me ANY proof there are no unicorns. no one has ever seen a unicorn, but there are stories about unicorns, and some of them say that they saw unicorns and that unicorns told them things 2,000 years ago. therefore, i believe in unicorns. you can't prove they don't exist, therefore they exist, and my argument is flawless.

thats not what i said. if you wanna do it with unicorns it would be like this:

give me ANY proof there are no unicorns. no one has ever seen a unicorn, but there are stories about unicorns, and some of them say that they saw unicorns and that unicorns told them things 2,000 years ago.  you can't prove they don't exist, therefore i can choose to believe in them or i can choose not to, and i choose to because i like to, its my choice

only with god i also choose to believe in him because it makes sense to me because then there is justice, purpose etc.

and with unicorns you can prove if they existed or not by looking for fossils or any biological proof, but with god you cant, because hes supernatural. all we can grasp and understand is the natural

this is an example of your argument on a smaller scale - which is a logical fallacy, but i'll humor you. the difference is that god invalidates his existence through man's description of him. there is substantial proof that god doesn't exist. enjoy educating yourself about the following:

• occam's razor
• omnipotence paradox
• omniscience paradox
• omnipresence paradox
• the theodice problem/the problem of evil
• ontological argument fallacy
• the problem of hell
• inconsistent triad

and, unlike with scientific theories, there is no factual evidence to suggest god exists in any way, so you can only wish he exists - not know. further, if god does exist, there is no way of knowing if he listens to you, hears you, or knows you exist. you can only speculate. it does not go beyond this. you must either accept your faith is blind, naive, not based on any facts or truths and live in ignorance of the overwhelming evidence against you, throw away logic, reason and rationality... or reject it all and live your life free of the crutch of religion.

but i will educate myself on those things you listed

[Philip K Dick]

are all dutch people this stupidly religious

[Kött]

God takes action.. i mean just recently there was a huge earthquake that fucked up haiti even worse, it's been known that Haiti is one of the few countries thats been heavily worshipping the devil and been comitting all that voodoo there's WAY more of that in history. check out pompeii, it used to be one of the biggest places to commit sins and just fuck everything that walks, God eventually took action and wiped that shit out of the world. God takes action every single day. every day there are disasters, small, big, it could be a completly different kind of disaster etc. that where created by god usually those disasters are a wake up call, you know that you realise that life is short and that that shit can happen to you too.

Yess! And as well as that god is responsible for Katrina blowing the shit outta New Orleans and giving cancer to people as rappers!

I hope you weren't being serious in that post...

[Daveb0t]

keep up the good work

[Jeinu]

give me ANY proof that there are no supernatural things like angels and god

it cannot be done. before you go "HA. gotcha there!" i will explain why.

you CANNOT prove a negative. it is impossible logically, philosophically, metaphorically. it simply cannot be done. I'm sure those of you who've taken philosophy or logic and reasoning courses have talked about this in class, as i was taught. This is one of the weakest arguments for a god, in saying things like "well, you can't prove he doesn't exist !!!" and here's an example WHY:

let's say i set out to prove that reindeer cannot fly, so that i can disprove the myth of santa claus. i gather up hundreds of reindeer and start pushing them off a cliff to observe if they fly or not (ah, purely for science of course!). one by one they'll hit the ground. in the end there's going to be a large pile of unhappy, broken reindeer at the base of the cliff. does this prove my hypothesis? no, actually, it does not. Perhaps the reindeer CHOSE not to fly. santa claus enthusiasts will claim, "well it's only the 8 reindeer from the northpole that can fly and, oh, they can only do it one night out of the year." GREAT, that narrows the field of study down quite a bit, but it doesn't make for a very testable hypothesis. no, my firm belief that reindeer cannot fly is based off of my knowledge of the average reindeer's aerodynamic abilities. but hey, we can't be sure if i'm right or not until someone actually scientifically records a reindeer flying.

So, hopefully this example shows you, you can't prove a negative. Our knowledge of the universe is defined on proofs we have made, based on POSITIVE claims. the burden of proof is on those that make the claim, not the other way around. Another great example would be the way the court system is made up-- "innocent until proven guilty" -- the burden of proof is on the accuser.