Fox News GOP Debate 1/10/08

[monkeyscanfly]

First of all i do not trust "Faux News" anymore (Fox News for the morons that didn't understand it)


I think maybe this elections are really screwed over... NO i will not vote for another Clinton in office, NO i would not vote for ignorance. War happens every 20-30 years its weird... Us humans cannot live without war for some reason... My step-father, the closest thing to a father, i ever had is in Iraq. Its his job... It will be my job too. I am very conservative (no abortion no mariajuana etc.) Obama seems like a nice guy but he doens't have much experience. Clinton thinks is a freaking beauty padgent and she's only doing it for the publicity. For some reason almost all Republicans want war with Iran and most Democrats want things that will ruin the morality of the country. If you can vote i say stay at home. If i could i would move to somewhere like Australia. The world is not going to end... The world is only starting to rip itself.

[MRat]

Get the fuck out of here if you believe in morality and equate it to things like anti-abortion. You fail at morality if you're anti-abortion. I will hunt you down, find you're closest female relative and impregnate her with a baby she can't care for. You tell me it's better for you to bring a child up in a world where it won't be happy than to stop it because it even exists as a human being.






You gotta be pretty fucking stupid if you're pro-war and anti-abortion. It'd ok to cause civiliant deaths through collateral damage, destroying hundreds of innocent lives, but you can't kill a mass of undefined cells? Wow, you're going straight to hell.













That's right, I like to start shit.

[rtil]

yeah um, i don't think i understand. why would i not vote if i have the ability to? there is no such thing as a wasted vote, and if a person i dislike gets into office, and i didn't vote, i can't bitch about it because i did absolutely nothing to stop it. and what republicans and democrats want changes every four years. those terms mean nothing.
What conservatives want are smaller government and less nation building.
What liberals want are more government programs and more policing of the world.

Mike Huckabee, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson are liberals

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich (minus the healthcare issue) are conservatives

fuck the two party system. our founding fathers warned us that we should never have a party system because it will brutally divide this nation. and it has done exactly that

[W.A.C.]

I thought Dennis Kucinich was the most hardcore liberal running for president on the Democratic side. Also, I didn't know our founding fathers didn't want a party system in this country. The founding fathers sure were very smart. >_> To be perfectly honest, I'm actually glad there's a party system. I just wish it wasn't just a two party system. Sure, there's other parties but Libertarians like Ron Paul has to register as a Republican to have any chance of being elected.

[rtil]

our founding fathers knew what trials may come to face this nation. many of them have come and we have failed. if you want to read something like a prediction of the future, read George Washington's 1796 farewell address. he warns the country not to do a lot of things we have already done and are ok with

and if you want to get to specifics, kucinich and paul are pretty much libertarians. everyone else is mostly liberal or statist.

[rtil]

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html take this crudely short political test to find out where you might stand. i score 100% on personal and economic issues (libertarian)

[W.A.C.]

"Repeal laws prohibiting adult possession and use of drugs."

That depends. I think drugs like cocaine and cigarettes should be illegal but I think drugs like pot and alcohol should be legal. I put "maybe".

"Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security."

I don't know how social security works so I clicked "maybe". >_>

"Replace government welfare with private charity."

What are the advantages and disadvantages? I put "maybe".

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 90%.

Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 60%.

They claim I'm a Libertarian but I think I'm more of a liberal than a Libertarian. According to this site, here's where Kucinich and Ron Paul place.

Kucinich's Results:



Ron Paul's Results:



Edit-

I just went on Google and it turns Dennis Kucinich considers himself a Libertarian.

[rtil]

kucinich scores more liberal because he wants to put in place government programs for healthcare and social wellbeing. i don't know much about his foreign policy but i would imagine it would be very libertarian

[zomfgbie]

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 80%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 80%.

i got libetarian. cant vote anyway

[W.A.C.]

kucinich scores more liberal because he wants to put in place government programs for healthcare and social wellbeing. i don't know much about his foreign policy but i would imagine it would be very libertarian

I think I heard that Dennis's foreign policy is nearly identical to Ron Paul's foreign policy but their domestic policies are very different.

Edit-

Dennis Kucinich as president and Ron Paul as vice president would make for an amazing presidency. In this video link, Dennis Kucinich explains why he would consider Ron Paul as his vice president. Dennis brings up some valid points in the video. On an off-topic note, I wonder how much longer Gravel will be in the race. Gravel is throwing a really shitty campaign but he seems so ticked off at the media that I don't think he'll drop out anytime soon.

Kucinich states that his international policy is very similar in that video link. He also stated their domestic policies couldn't be farther apart.

[rtil]

then he must be for bigger government to support the unfortunate/etc
they say a hardcore libertarian is someone who could step over a starving dying beggar without a second glance
i could see kucinich setting him up with some government cheese and project housing

[MRat]

The more I listen to Backalley politics talks, the more I wish I knew you guys when I was a MUN junkie. The debates we could put up here are so much more informed than the dumbass comments the hardcore World Issues students make.

It's amazing that the people here, on some art forum, do better research and have clearer thinking than the people who want to go into politics as a career field so badly. Honestly, though I don't always agree with the points everyone makes, you guys are way smarter than the people I used to debate against.


Sappyness aside, I'm with Rtil, fuck the party systems like this.

[Nadroj0711]

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 100%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 100%.

okay, so i didn\\\'t know what libertarian meant
i\\\'ve taken a quiz like this before and gotten libertarian
but i didn\\\'t know what that was so i was like ??
and stuck with liberal
but now i realize what\\\'s wrong with liberalism
policing the world, government spending and such
but conservatives haven\\\'t really struck me as forward thinkers

most conservatives are just super religious

[MRat]

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 100%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 100%.

okay, so i didn't know what libertarian meant
i've taken a quiz like this before and gotten libertarian
but i didn't know what that was so i was like ??
and stuck with liberal
but now i realize what's wrong with liberalism
policing the world, government spending and such
but conservatives haven't really struck me as forward thinkers

most conservatives are just super religious

while you're generlizing a bit there, it's true that most politicians, and by tandem their supporters, are so rigid about beliefs and refuse to accept change either which way. but it's a problem both parties have, and probably will continue to have for time to come.

[rtil]

well jordan i think it\\\'s safe to say your vote would best be aligned with Ron Paul he\\\'s the closest thing to a libertarian on the ticket

It\\\'s amazing that the people here, on some art forum, do better research and have clearer thinking than the people who want to go into politics as a career field so badly. Honestly, though I don\\\'t always agree with the points everyone makes, you guys are way smarter than the people I used to debate against.

debating that sounds like fun
though in the end it\\\'d probably just be frustrating considering most arguments go nowhere
aaaaaaaand most people are just plain stupid and they think you\\\'re stupid too

[MRat]

debating that sounds like fun
though in the end it'd probably just be frustrating considering most arguments go nowhere
aaaaaaaand most people are just plain stupid and they think you're stupid too

they're regulated debates with moderators and all that sort of thing. i went to a massive conference in Den Haag at the big UN court there, but I got thrown out of my commitee because I refused to vote Turley into the EU (we did some minor EU simulations as well) and they said I was just being festicious, which is ridiculous. Turkey isn't stable enough. The EU should totally help them, but induscting them into the EU would be hasty. And I stand by it.

[Nadroj0711]

well jordan i think it's safe to say your vote would best be aligned with Ron Paul he's the closest thing to a libertarian on the ticket

yeah, i'm voting for ron paul
i like what you've said about him
it isn't just that, of course
i've done a lot of research on my own
i can say a few things about each candidate

i have a friend who says she wants ron paul to win
but she said she'll probably vote for obama since she thinks he'll make it all the way
and if it's up against him and hilary, she wants him to win
i told her she ought to just vote for ron paul and not just who she thinks will win
but she doesn't think he will make it to the top
i told her if everyone who felt the same as her voted for him anyway, he might win!
she says she doesn't feel like her vote matters because of the electoral vote
and she thinks it should just be based solely on popular vote

[rtil]

the electoral college is based on the popular vote

here's how it works:
1. people show up to their precinct's caucus to decide on who will be a delegate. delegates can move on to the county, state and national convention. at the national convention, delegates make up a percantage based on popular vote beecaaaaaaaaause...
2. at the primary people vote for their candidate. this typically makes up 51% of the vote, the other 49% goes to delegates. delegates typically go with whoever won in their precinct. delegates essentially reflect the outcome of the popular vote
3. in the national vote, each state is designated a number of spots in the electoral college due to population. only twice in history has a candidate gone into office and not won the popular vote

so saying your vote doesn't matter is stupid. also the concept of a wasted vote doesn't make any sense to begin with. if you don't vote based on who you believe in then you might as well vote for your least favorite candidate. the reason we elect morons into office is because most people vote on who they think they can win. it confuses me, but it's common for most people

ron paul can make it all the way if people weren't so clouded with doubt

[MRat]

Tell your friend that if she doesn't vote, the landshark will get her.

[W.A.C.]

ron paul can make it all the way if people weren't so clouded with doubt

Indeed. There's been a countless amount of times I've read that a person won't vote for Kucinich simply because many people believe it's a wasted vote. Because of that, look what happened in New Hampshire. I thought Kucinich would do much better but because so many people are filled with so much doubt, Kucinich did laughably poor. Stations like NBC doesn't help. A judge claims NBC either has to include Kucinich or have the debates not go on. Guess what NBC chose.