『蒸気波一般69スレッドおっぱい420』〜芸術は死んでいますedition〜

Bamyasi · October 13, 2015 03:24 PM

Real talk though I don't really understand why we have to pretend music tastes live in some unassailable bastion of subjectivity.

We don't have the same standards for art or movies or anime or videogames or flash animation.

If someone dislikes something I like, I wouldn't shrug it off with "well it's just my taste," I would defend it, passionately, because I believe good art deserves to be defended. I wouldn't put someone down for liking something I don't, but I would try to explain why, in my opinion, the thing was bad.

That's not what I made this thread for, but if anyone bothered to defend vaporwave here or in that other thread I would love to discuss it with them. Secretly, I actually do like a lot of vaporwave musically, but I don't pretend that it's some grand aesthetic or futurist advancement like a lot of people do (jokingly or not) when process-wise it's analogous to tracing over a photo or making a sprite film.

Sure, maybe the vaporwave DJs (because that's what they are, it doesn't have to be a dirty word (but to white people who have more respect for mediocre guitarists than amazing DJs it obviously would be) it wasn't to the chopped & screwed scene, and the two genres are almost musically identical) are more self-aware about the futurist, deconstructionist, or accelerationist themes of their music, but bands like Sweet Trip and especially the glitch guys were already there 20 years ago. (And yes I did just link a p4k article. I know their reviews suck but the fact it was published at all is a good indicator the general populous may finally start to realize the cultural significance of glitch aesthetics, which have been all but abandoned in the past 5 years.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0z5rRcPnZY

If I dislike vaporwave though, it's not because it's artistically dishonest (anecdotal evidence but several times I've messaged artists to privately cite their samples for me and have been blocked), or because it uses samples/remixes (I would defend those two methods to hell and back, as I would do tracing in certain cases), but because it's shallow. Typically purveyors of the style rely just as much on visual #a e s t h e t i c as the actual content of the music. This has been true before (see: all rock and pop, jazz, IDM, pretty much every genre born or played in the 20th century, even traditional ones), but it's never been truer than it is now, not only because of hashtags and whatever tumblr uses, but because people are acting like vaporwave has invented something when by it's nature nothing intrinsically new was invented. Not even Markus Popp pretended to be or acted like an actual composer. In that way, vaporwave is more akin to a performance art: DJs pretending to be composers (note: either way there's still musicianship involved, the title of DJ should be worn proudly).

This can all be summed up by noting the disparity between these two wikipedia articles^[1] ^[2]. The first article dedicates at least half it's wordcount to the visual aesthetic and cultural, philosophical and artistic implications of vaporwave, while the one on glitch music is dedicated almost entirely to the process of making it. This is because, with vaporwave, the criticism has been baked right into the crust by the (mainly North American) musicians, whereas the (mostly European) creators of glitch music didn't apply nearly as much cultural import to their own output, instead relying on critics and listeners to do it for them, should they choose. That's how great art is created, through conversation.

And if I had to venture a guess, I'd say all this pretense has been attached to vaporwave because its audience feels abashed listening to "muzak" they would previously have considered "cheesy." It's hipsterdom evolved.

TL;DR: I've been trolled.

To answer Kizunami's question, I started this thread because I dislike the solipsism of the one in General, and because last.fm has gone to shit. It's debatable whether or not this one is more solipsistic though, because I just wrote 20 paragraphs no one will read.

TTGL;DDR: Basically this is a containment thread for pretentious pseudo-intellectual hipsters like me to ~~circlejerk~~ engage with actual music fans like Jon and Proto.

Quote from: rtil on October 11, 2015 10:00 PM
this is a more refined thread where we can tell eachother why other people's taste in music is objectively trash

Also this, as I've just demonstrated.

d-floe · October 13, 2015 04:37 PM

Lol u said hipster lmao

Gladius · October 13, 2015 05:50 PM

Quote from: crackers on October 11, 2015 06:45 PM

i thought he used a template like cad and dbz do

Jon · October 13, 2015 06:07 PM

i like this thread its cozy and intellectual and yea *lights up joint, kicks back*

Bamyasi · October 13, 2015 07:00 PM

If you guys don't shape up I'm going to set this thread to private and host interviews and maybe you'll get an invite.

Bamyasi · October 13, 2015 07:07 PM

Also stop bullying Kizunami.

Only I may do that.

michaell · October 14, 2015 11:14 AM

Quote from: crackers on October 11, 2015 06:45 PM

..........

ProtoChaud · October 15, 2015 05:15 AM

Quote from: Jon on October 13, 2015 09:35 AM
Quote from: rtil on October 11, 2015 10:00 PM
this is a more refined thread where we can tell eachother why other people's taste in music is objectively trash

this sicko doesnt like rap music everyone

None at all? How? You need a direct infusion of the Meth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lbXnwAAR8

Quote from: Des Esseintes on October 9, 2015 04:41 PM
Oh c'mon you have to admit John G. Perry's intonation kind of sounds like Ozzy's on that song (maybe, I'm bad with voices). Musically, you're right, they're entirely different genres.

KC is the actual tits. Everything from Larks Tongue in Aspic through Discipline is fantastic, but I haven't actually heard anything past that so I'll check out ToAPP. Prog rock was really the first rock genre I really got into, because before that it all sounded so boring and I wasn't a huge fan of guitars. It was kind of a gateway genre for me in 8th grade/early high school that led me into Krautrock, Post-Punk, Shoegaze, Post-Rock, etc.

I like KC, Yes and (Gabriel era) Genesis, but I find Canterbury scene stuff to be better for casual listening. It's typically more playful and whimsical and less self-serious, toning down the lyrical grandiosity and visual theatricality of some of the more well-known Prog bands (which I think are probably more famous for those reasons alone), retaining a lot of the cheesiness and kitsch, which I like. Ironically, Canterbury scene bands also often pushed the envelope just as much, if not more.

If you want to get into it, assuming you haven't already in some form, Soft Machine's first four albums, Caravan's first five, Pierre Moerlen's Gong (+Camembert Electrique / Radio Gnome trilogy) and mid-late 70's Camel are all good starting places.

{Caravan - In the Land of Grey and Pink}

I also assume you already know Hawkwind.

Yeah he still doesn't remind me of Ozzy, he's not nasal enough, doesn't have the same whine. You wanna hear someone who sounds like Ozzy, check out Lord Vicar, their singer is a dead ringer for him at times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EEEqOpyjLc

I actually haven't gotten into the Canterbury scene yet, I tend to gravitate toward the more "ridiculously insane" stuff like Magma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd5m-V8CFI4
and my aforementioned favorite King Crimson album, Discipline.

And yeah, I know Hawkwind. I like their stuff, though I'm rather biased when it comes to their material from '72 to '75, since Lemmy was their bassist at the time.

Also @Jon, did you ever finish Consvming Impvlse? If you did and you liked it, I can give you a short list of other OSDM albums in the same vein.

Bamyasi · October 15, 2015 02:04 PM

Hah, yeah, that guy does sound just like him.

Magma's pretty cool. I love Mechanical Dominatrix Commando or however it's spelled, and especially Kohntarkosz. There are a few Japanese zeuhl bands but I find them incredibly difficult to listen to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysCeaED_6Eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCKyRweCR7U
At least Christian Vander's stuff had some semblance of melody, at least that I could detect.

Canterbury stuff can get about as insane as Magma, but I tend to think that end of the spectrum hasn't aged quite as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4G50A5mBtg
Most of it falls somewhere between this level of wackiness and softer outings like Caravan, though, like Soft Machine, which is probably my favorite British prog/jazz/whatever band ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKmimBN4ZM
Their 70's stuff is pretty much just jazz-fusion with some prog elements though. I highly suggest listening to Third and Fourth at least once. They both have this incredibly pretty, melancholic atmosphere that I haven't really found anywhere else.

But yeah I tend to prefer softer, more melodic stuff in general.

Necronomitr0n · November 21, 2015 01:33 AM

Slipknot's first album is good.

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

Unless · January 11, 2016 04:11 AM

I figured instead of posting a new thread, I'd leave this here as this was a good thread which should forever and always outlive the general music thread, even though we all know that that won't happen.

Here's a song I just stumbled upon again, and I can't remember when first I heard it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr-SqRWImmI

I love the vocals during the chorus, which I'm sure you'll understand far better by listening than by reading some detailed thoughts which are badly, tiredly put together by me in text. I appreciate the diversity in her tone and formant, and that she's not afraid to go low with it. Typical pretty girl voices which are pleasing but straightforward are becoming sort of incredibly tiresome for me at the moment.
What I'd love would be recommendations of other singers with whom or songs in which something similar is done.

[spoiler]
As a general rule for me, if you think the only thing holding you back from helping me out is completely not getting the operative points of what I'm trying to say, then feel free to remind me that I'm meant to be talking real English.
[/spoiler]

Bamyasi · January 11, 2016 11:29 AM

I'm guessing you already know Charli XCX.

Uhhh Roisin Murphy has a pretty husky voice I suppose:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic9f7XRRhx0

If you're talking about the tonal fluctuation(?), Grimes does a lot of that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooWkA_-lOHA

I could probably think of more but I'd have to dig through my library and I might already be off.

Quote from: Unless on January 11, 2016 04:11 AM
[spoiler]
As a general rule for me, if you think the only thing holding you back from helping me out is completely not getting the operative points of what I'm trying to say, then feel free to remind me that I'm meant to be talking real English.
[/spoiler]

When have I ever....

zwimmy · January 12, 2016 03:48 AM

SrsSam77 · January 12, 2016 04:07 AM

memes

wherever anthony fantano or his brother systech is, they look down on you

zwimmy · January 12, 2016 04:37 AM

fantano sux

my king is FrankJavCee

Bamyasi · January 12, 2016 04:40 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94u6by5ckM

It's like if I took one of your pictures, threw on a photoshop filter, and uploaded it to my own tumblr without accrediting.

But who cares because memes.

ProtoChaud · January 12, 2016 04:45 AM

Quote from: zwimmy on January 12, 2016 03:48 AM
ⓂⒺⓂⒺⓈ

All joking aside, this is actually really good. Any album recommendations? (Other than this Macintosh Plus album obviously.)

zwimmy · January 12, 2016 05:14 AM

Quote from: Bamyasi on January 12, 2016 04:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94u6by5ckM

It's like if I took one of your pictures, threw on a photoshop filter, and uploaded it to my own tumblr without accrediting.

But who cares because memes.

TOO FAST

Bamyasi · January 12, 2016 09:04 AM

I seriously don't get how vapidwave is excused from discussions of white appropriation in the popular arts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6UpJhaxCZ0

Quote from: ProtoChaud on January 12, 2016 04:45 AM
Any album recommendations? (Other than this Macintosh Plus album obviously.)

Seriously just listen to works they sample. That's what vaporwave is best for. The original songs do everything the remixes do, make you feel everything they make you feel, the effects just weren't intentional because the musicians are doing something besides masturbating into a mirror.

ProtoChaud · January 12, 2016 09:13 AM

Quote from: Bamyasi on January 12, 2016 09:04 AM
Quote from: ProtoChaud on January 12, 2016 04:45 AM
Any album recommendations? (Other than this Macintosh Plus album obviously.)
Seriously just listen to works they sample. That's what vaporwave is best for. The original songs do everything the remixes do, make you feel everything they make you feel, the effects just weren't intentional because the musicians are doing something besides masturbating into a mirror.

But the thing I like about vaporwave is the fact that it's slowed down a lot and bits are looped and chopped. The originals don't have that.