Iowa Caucus Final Results

[W.A.C.]

FYI, the candidates that look good to me is Kucinich, Obama, Hilary, and Ron Paul. I would be happy to have any of those people as our president.

the federal government can't save a guy's finger, and you think they can document 11 million displaced people?

Heh. You have a point.

If a test is too hard for most Americans, why should it be that difficult for immigrants?

because americans are stupid

True.

see above. is this news to you?

No.

i doubt it. life expectancy is mostly reflective of diet. here's looking at you, japan.

Heh.

Kucinich's plan is the same plan as every other democrats' - a single-pay socialized medicine healthcare plan. but they don't say 'socialized medicine' because it scares americans. 'universal healthcare' sounds more american!! THESE COLORS DON'T RUN YEAH

His healthcare plan is actually different from other Democrats and he even claimed in an interview that his healthcare plan is not socialism. He states that in this interview between the 4:30 and 5:10 areas in the video.

If someone couldn't afford Ron Paul's healthcare plan, they're probably homeless or have no source of income.

Oh.

It don't think this is registering into your head - local and privatized healthcare would be CHEAP. People pay the max for medical bills these days to make up for the extensive costs and tax subsidies - which WOULDN'T EXIST under privatized healthcare. This would make it more accessible to the poor. And who says that they would be denied healthcare by a privatized healthcare industry as opposed to a federal system? Doctors care more about your life than the government does.

Well, I will admit that Ron Paul's healthcare ideas do sound good however, I like Kucinich's plan better.

lmao you can't just compare the United States to a country like France and say "it works over there!" that's like saying we should be isolationist because it's been working so well for the Japanese.

Yeah but we're the only wealthy industrialized nation that doesn't have universal healthcare. If there was a few other wealthy industrialized nations that didn't have universal healthcare, that would be one thing but we're the only one.

Under socialized medicine, the government decides:
1. if you actually need healthcare
2. if you're eligible for healthcare
3. what you'll pay for healthcare
4. when you'll get it
5. where you'll get it

In countries like the UK, it doesn't seem that strict.

it's not some magical dream where everyone gets everything for nothing. there are weaknesses to the system. big ones. big ones that this capitalist country has failed in tackling.

If we could pull off universal healthcare successfully, I think it could work great.

well then, let's tax the rich to make a federal reserve for middle class kids so they don't have to pay money to go to college either. whee

I believe the middle class and the rich should have to pay an equal percentage of taxes. If taxing the rich for that doesn't make it where they have to pay a higher percentage than the middle class, I would be completely fine with that.

you remember the silver spoon thing i was talking about? yeah. welcome to the world, it isn't perfect. life is full of struggles. paying for college is something everyone goes through. it's not traumatizing, it's a part of life. and the federal government isn't going to pat your back on the way through it.

Both Hilary and Kucinich seem like candidates that would make college not as expensive for people in the middle class.

Fox is a horribly crooked network. They've been caught pulling fraudulent polls and phony surveys all the time to report what they want to hear, not what's real news.

I consider Fox News propaganda, not a news source. I'm just glad they actually give Kucinich decent air time.

Anyway, as far as Kucinich's campaign goes, well, his odds for the oval office are 250 to 1, literally. while it is unfair that his excluded from debates, the guys' campaign has gone absolutely nowhere since early last year.

Kucinich is a long shot candidate. He has a chance, just not a big chance. It doesn't help that a lot of news source like CNN can't go 5 minutes without mentioning Hilary's name yet you'd be lucky to hear the name "Kucinich" after watching the station for hours straight.

was at 10, just changed it to 30

Thank you.

Edit-

I really care about the environment and I refuse to ever vote for a person that supports drilling in Alaska. Isn't Ron Paul the type of person that would hurt the environment badly in Alaska just for oil? If so, he'll never get my vote.

[rtil]

His healthcare plan is actually different from other Democrats and he even claimed in an interview that his healthcare plan is not socialism. He states that in this interview between the 4:30 and 5:10 areas in the video.

If it's a no-profit system that's .. interesting I guess. I still dislike the idea of a federally controlled universal healthcare system. If there's one thing the government has proved it cannot do that is serve the best interests of the people.

Well, I will admit that Ron Paul's healthcare ideas do sound good however, I like Kucinich's plan better.

i like your deductive reasoning there.

Yeah but we're the only wealthy industrialized nation that doesn't have universal healthcare. If there was a few other wealthyindustrialized nations that didn't have universal healthcare, that would be one thing but we're the only one.

you keep hounding on this and there's no viable base to the claim except " the majority is always right", and we all know that isn't true.
i have also mentioned at least once that canada and the UK's healthcare system has severe setbacks. canada has long waiting times, second-rate care, and the UK's socialist dental system has left the entire country with the worldwide reputation of having the worst set of teeth on the planet.

sounds mighty effective to me.

In countries like the UK, it doesn't seem that strict.

it may not be strict, but it sure does suck.

If we could pull off universal healthcare successfully, I think it could work great.

we can't, due to the state of our economy and the way in which our government functions.

I believe the middle class and the rich should have to pay an equal percentage of taxes. If taxing the rich for that doesn't make it where they have to pay a higher percentage than the middle class, I would be completely fine with that.

so you're in support of something like a mike huckabee fair tax. please keep in mind your low class parents will be giving up about 30% of their income to the federal government under a fair tax.
under Clinton, we experienced an economic surplus by simply removing taxes from the middle and low class and increasing taxes on the extremely wealthy. that bracket of income is so high that it was able to do that, and working class americans got to keep more of their income while our economy flourished.
you seem to want to implement a fair tax based on college tuitions. out of anyone i have ever discussed politics with, you have the most spontaneous and strange ideas. you have to know that a fair tax would be horrible for our nation.

Both Hilary and Kucinich seem like candidates that would make college not as expensive for people in the middle class.

by doing what

I consider Fox News propaganda, not a news source. I'm just glad they actually give Kucinich decent air time.

a rare moment for them

Kucinich is a long shot candidate. He has a chance, just not a big chance. It doesn't help that a lot of news source like CNN can't go 5 minutes without mentioning Hilary's name yet you'd be lucky to hear the name "Kucinich" after watching the station for hours straight.

considering how much hillary's name has been spoken, she didn't do so hot in iowa.
i'm actually really sick of hearing about obama. people are acting like he's the second coming. do we have a democratic huckster on our hands? hallelujah!

[W.A.C.]

If it's a no-profit system that's .. interesting I guess. I still dislike the idea of a federally controlled universal healthcare system. If there's one thing the government has proved it cannot do that is serve the best interests of the people.

At least Kucinich's plan is better than Hilary's plan when it comes to healthcare. He recently released this ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLtUDeoRQe4

you keep hounding on this and there's no viable base to the claim except " the majority is always right", and we all know that isn't true.
i have also mentioned at least once that canada and the UK's healthcare system has severe setbacks. canada has long waiting times, second-rate care, and the UK's socialist dental system has left the entire country with the worldwide reputation of having the worst set of teeth on the planet.

sounds mighty effective to me.

I was going to bring up how France's healthcare system is the best in the world but then I realized I would just be repeating myself once again. Obviously it works better in other countries. Both Ron Paul's plan and Kucinich's plan sounds like they would both work. I don't know what else to say. Universal healthcare in some countries is obviously very flawed but if it works well in some countries, I think it would work well here. I know you probably disagree with that but let's agree to disagree.

we can't, due to the state of our economy and the way in which our government functions.

Universal healthcare is probably not something would be a good idea to implement right away.

so you're in support of something like a mike huckabee fair tax. please keep in mind your low class parents will be giving up about 30% of their income to the federal government under a fair tax.
under Clinton, we experienced an economic surplus by simply removing taxes from the middle and low class and increasing taxes on the extremely wealthy. that bracket of income is so high that it was able to do that, and working class americans got to keep more of their income while our economy flourished.
you seem to want to implement a fair tax based on college tuitions. out of anyone i have ever discussed politics with, you have the most spontaneous and strange ideas. you have to know that a fair tax would be horrible for our nation.

I didn't know that fair tax would be bad for our nation. Before of the information you just told me, I'll reconsider my opinion on taxes.

Both Hilary and Kucinich seem like candidates that would make college not as expensive for people in the middle class.

by doing what

Well, Hilary explained something about it in a speech I partially watched today and I forgot what she said. As for Kucinich, I'm terrible at explaining some of his plans. I would make for a rather shitty debater. >_>

I consider Fox News propaganda, not a news source. I'm just glad they actually give Kucinich decent air time.

a rare moment for them

Some of the staff members from Fox News have openly complimented Kucinich by saying they respect him as well as other things. Considering how Fox News is pretty much run by Republicans, that's a lot coming from them.

considering how much hillary's name has been spoken, she didn't do so hot in iowa.

Yeah but a lot of people have no idea who Kucinich is due to a lack of media exposure.

i'm actually really sick of hearing about obama. people are acting like he's the second coming. do we have a democratic huckster on our hands? hallelujah!

Obama looks like he would do a good job but I don't understand why some people act like he's so amazing. A lot of Obama's supporters act like he's some amazing politician yet many of them have no idea what his stance is on a lot of his policies. Don't get me wrong. I like Obama but he's not my #1 pick. Also, did you read my edit about Ron Paul from my last reply in this thread?

[Philip K Dick]

politixxxxxxxxxxxx

[rtil]

I was going to bring up how France's healthcare system is the best in the world but then I realized I would just be repeating myself once again. Obviously it works better in other countries. Both Ron Paul's plan and Kucinich's plan sounds like they would both work. I don't know what else to say. Universal healthcare in some countries is obviously very flawed but if it works well in some countries, I think it would work well here. I know you probably disagree with that but let's agree to disagree.

I just don't think we should follow the models of other countries, but instead assess our own and agree what is best for the way our country functions.

Obama looks like he would do a good job but I don't understand why some people act like he's so amazing. A lot of Obama's supporters act like he's some amazing politician yet many of them have no idea what his stance is on a lot of his policies. Don't get me wrong. I like Obama but he's not my #1 pick. Also, did you read my edit about Ron Paul from my last reply in this thread?

Being a good speaker always gets you lots of clueless votes. Obama is a good speaker, and he has a large youth vote who has no idea what his stances on the issues are. They think he's anti-war and a uniter, but frankly I think he's more interested in remaining there as well as abroad.

And yes, I did see. Ron Paul does support ANWR drilling because he wants to move away from foreign oil dependency. But you need to know something. We have not yet begun to see India and China's demand for oil, and prices will soar. Eventually, every source of known oil will be tapped to its full extent due to this. Until we move to alternative sources of energy, there will come a point where ANWR drilling will be the only option. Politicians only disapprove of it now for grants and environmentalist votes - Ron Paul's simply being realistic.

No candidate can promise the price of oil will go down - they have little control over it. The demand has far outstretched the supply, and soon we will not even be the #1 consumer of it.

[Miro]

Kucinich wants too abolish the 2nd amendment I was told.
He doesn't think the public should be able too carry hand-guns,
A lot of people are against the idea,

This might hurt him.


btw
anyone watch Hilary moan and whine yesterday?

[rtil]

haha. If that is true, the guy has to be realistic. Organizations like the NRA are so incredibly powerful, they would stop him before he even was able to lay a finger on the 2nd amendment. Plus, I believe the 2nd amendment is very important. Without a citizen's right to bear arms, a fascist state could easily overtake the people. The point of the 2nd amendment is for the people to defend themselves if the government ever became corrupt to the point of that kind of violence against people.

and I are you talking about when Hillary Clinton was tearing up when answering a question? I saw that. I also saw this: http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=25784 which I find far more fascinating. i'm surprised that guy had the guts to do that.

[Nadroj0711]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

[rtil]

AHAHAhahahaha. he's a lot softer than he used to be when it comes to other people. but when it comes to the issues, definitely not. he still has those same beliefs, and he is right.

[W.A.C.]

I just don't think we should follow the models of other countries, but instead assess our own and agree what is best for the way our country functions.

And I understand your point of view. I just believe that Kucinich's plan is the best healthcare plan.

Being a good speaker always gets you lots of clueless votes. Obama is a good speaker, and he has a large youth vote who has no idea what his stances on the issues are. They think he's anti-war and a uniter, but frankly I think he's more interested in remaining there as well as abroad.

I'm somewhat worried that you might be right.

And yes, I did see. Ron Paul does support ANWR drilling because he wants to move away from foreign oil dependency. But you need to know something. We have not yet begun to see India and China's demand for oil, and prices will soar. Eventually, every source of known oil will be tapped to its full extent due to this. Until we move to alternative sources of energy, there will come a point where ANWR drilling will be the only option. Politicians only disapprove of it now for grants and environmentalist votes - Ron Paul's simply being realistic.

If we drill in ANWR, it'll ruin those areas of the environment. If Ron Paul did that, he would always be remembered as the guy who ruined Alaska's environment and be hated by environmentalists everywhere. One thing I really like about Kucinich is that he really wants America to be less oil independent.

No candidate can promise the price of oil will go down - they have little control over it. The demand has far outstretched the supply, and soon we will not even be the #1 consumer of it.

True.

Kucinich wants too abolish the 2nd amendment I was told.
He doesn't think the public should be able too carry hand-guns,
A lot of people are against the idea,

This might hurt him.

He doesn't want to abolish the 2nd amendment. He does however want to ban handguns which is probably my biggest disagreement with Kucinich. That and he doesn't support building strong borders between America and Mexico.

btw
anyone watch Hilary moan and whine yesterday?

I don't consider it moaning and whining but yeah, I saw it. CNN kept playing that clip like every 5-10 minutes on their station for a while. Poor Hilary. :/

[trent bortknob]

i didnt read anything

[rtil]

No matter what environmentalists do, we will someday drill in Alaska.

[Necronomitr0n]

[W.A.C.]

No matter what environmentalists do, we will someday drill in Alaska.

We seriously need to invest in alternative fuel sources.

[rtil]

as far as i know, all major motor companies are developing vehicles that run on hydrogen fuel cells
regardless of that, china and india will be consuming oil like crazy for at least the next century.

[W.A.C.]

Do you think America will ever no longer need oil?

[rtil]

yes. when all the oil in the world is gone

[Nadroj0711]

movie script dialogue

[Necronomitr0n]

Even if we did switch to alternative fuel sources, we still wouldn't have enough to run all the cars in the country

[rtil]

unless the energy was cyclical or regenerated. but we're probably a long way off from that. either way , it's cheaper and cleaner to have a car run on hydrogen fuel cells, and the technology is at the point where it's doable. the problem is, there are no real hydrogen re-fueling stations in america. afaik there are only 5 in germany, and they plan to build some in the US this year