Official TBA StarCraft II Thread

[psi43]

spanishiwa wasn't the first to do mass queen, it wasn't his signature strategy (his no gas expansion was), and it never caught on either. plus.. he didn't get it from day9. day9, from what i understand, barely even plays sc2, much less zerg. he comes up with some of the WORST zerg openers for sc2 i've ever heard, especially his infamous roach mineral block gap defense that killed your econ.

he actually does play quite some sc2 and his main is zerg lol. Also, every strategy will eventually die out, mass queen is just an example and even catz used that for a while after participating in that funday monday. just saying that mass queen WAS a popular strat used by a lot of zerg players. It's not as popular anymore but you still see it from time to time.

[rtil]

just cuz he mains zerg doesn't mean he is good at it

and "mass queen" what strategy is that anyway? always making queens? you should be doing that anyway, unless you mean massing as in them taking up a significant amount of supply for army or something, in which case you will lose, no question

[cipher]

I don't even understand why funday monday needs to result in some new effective strategy or whatever. The whole point of it is to try to something weird and have fun with it.

The better you get at sc2, the less fun it can get (or at the very least, the more frustrating it gets). The whole point of funday monday is to forget about that and just play for the sake of having fun (or for dicking around, as Day[9] often puts it).

I just feel like its hard to justify not liking it unless you just play the game to not have fun.

And going back to what psi said, yes, new strategies have definitely come from it. So why does it matter if they are popular or not? Going back to Spanishiwa, he has that build where he doesn't get gas until around 40 population. Sometimes people do it, usually they don't. But just the fact that it's a different strategy that you have up your sleeve doesn't mean you can't occasionally employ it. I feel like you (rtil) are implying that standard is the only way to go (correct me if you're not). And sure, standard play styles are standard because they work the best, but that doesn't mean something like mass queen + ultralisks won't work either in the right situation. Variety is what makes the game more entertaining. Well what I'm getting at in the end is that I don't get your argument.



Also yeah, sorry, I misread your earlier post from the previous page

[rtil]

yeah, i don't play games for fun, and that's why i don't like funday monday. makes sense

[cipher]

I realized I had a lot more to say, so I edited it and you replied half way through, so reread it if you have the chance 

[rtil]

i'm not saying standard is the only way to go.. obviously if that were true roach hydra would still work against protoss.

watching people do stupid stuff is funny, but i don't like the idea of limiting my play for a week just because day9 tells me to. i play reactively, i do what i think is going to work. i learn new stuff by watching professionals play, not by bronze leaguers who are told not to expand to their natural, attack every 5 minutes or only use nydus worms or whatever the hell the theme of the week is.

[rtil]

the only reason why they are able to get away with it is for two reasons - the enemy is not expecting it, or their opponent was so bad that they couldn't beat something so bad.

[cipher]

To post #1:
Well if you don't want to then don't do it! It's not like Day[9] is the president of starcraft. And besides, if you go into a game saying "okay, I'm doing funday monday this week" then all of sudden shit hits the fan and something goes wrong, then just play it out normally and do it another time. And generally speaking, nobody watches funday monday to become a better player anyways. They watch it for entertainment purposes and occasionally walk away with some new strategy.

..And yes, while submissions usually range from bronze-platinum league, there are occasions where professionals (the only two that come to mind are Huk and CatZ, but I know there have been more) have submitted games, but I will admit that is a rarity.

To post #2:
Well in a lot of cases, the reason for its success (or failures - he shows those too) is just because of the lower leagues thing, as I said above. But a lot of them really can be seen as "legit" strategies (fast nukes, things like that). Furthermore, wouldn't you agree that the best, or at the very least, the most interesting way to win a game is to do something your opponent totally didn't expect? 


okay I'm going to bed now

[rtil]

maybe if you're terran, because terran can get away with almost anything - but no, when i play as zerg, i generally do what is known to work and i don't deviate it from it unless i am given an opportunity to or i have somehow managed to make the opponent play on my terms.

however in the later game it is good to do tech transitions so long as they don't know what you are up to.

[cipher]

Well, I forgot I had to print something so I am back. Although I don't have much to say aside from the fact that this debate has kind of deviated from what it originally was, give or take. And the original topic was retarded and barely debate worthy.

The only thing I have to add is that, as I more or less already stated, if it bothers you to play under constraints then don't, but that doesn't mean it isn't entertaining to watch other people do it. Personally I enjoy doing these kinds of things (on my own pace of course). I have done games when I was top 8 diamond that involved mass queens. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I guess it's just a matter of preference?

[rtil]

i already said it's fun to watch other people do it, my point was just that i don't like to do it - so i don't. i also just find day9 extremely annoying and he tends to give bad advice to zerg players.

[Sinitron]

i don't think it matters how bad it is when you're psi

[Sinitron]

[cipher]

Yeah I'm going to admit, the fact that you do have kind of a bias makes the argument even more pointless. I could go on to ask for more examples for bad zerg advice, aside from the one you asked, but I won't.

Debates are pointless if one party can't be converted to the other's opinion. Nothing personal here, this is how I end most debates I'm in the end...

[rtil]

even if i liked day9 it still wouldn't change the fact that he gives bad zerg advice. the only time good zerg advice is given is when he has a guest on who is a good zerg or he talks about zerg fundamentals like creep spread and inject timings

[Sinitron]

i dug out my starcraft headset again, it's a lot more comfortable than the heavy koss headset i have even though the sound isn't quite as good

the starcraft one is more plastic and foam than titanium and leather so it's a lot lighter

[Sinitron]

just won a TTvTT with mass battlecruisers

my ally was like OMG U R SIC every game we played because i employed AMAZING strategies he had NEVER seen before

-bring SCVs with a marine rush
-stutterstep and kill mass zerglings
-use battlecruisers with yamato

TRULY i am a TRENDSETTER (and my ally is not a huge worthless noob)

[Gladius]

http://rdgaming.blogspot.com/2010/10/bronze-silver-crash-course.html

Here's an invaluable guide for anyone considering getting into SC2. Me, Sin and others used it when we were new.

[Sinitron]

[Gladius]

www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/298921