Ron Paul reaches $18 mil in private donations

[W.A.C.]

amnesty for 12 million illegal immigrants will give a free pass to those who are here taking advantage of our economy while millions of others have actually waited to come here through the legal process. they are taking away jobs at incredible rates, destroying the borders and ruining the dollar. i don't know how anyone could support amnesty for illegals. if you do, you should talk to an immigrant who came here legally. i'm sure they'd give you a piece of their mind.

Isn't it supposed to be ridiculously hard to become a legal immigrant? Some families became illegal immigrants because they pretty much had no choice. Ever watched the show 30 Days? The illegal immigrants episode could possibly change your mind on the situation or possibly not.

universal health care will ruin the integrity of our medical system by outstretching the financial support for doctors and hospitals. its effectiveness will decrease as millions of americans who haven't earned the wages to afford healthcare will flood hospitals and doctors offices. a deficit will widen and our medical system will go from one of the world's most envied to one of the world's worst.

I believe everyone should be able to get decent medical. I once heard that some person was in a situation where if he didn't get immediate help from a medical helicopter, he would die. If he did get some help, he would never be able to afford it. His relatives would've probably ended up paying the rest of what he couldn't pay so he choose death. I consider that absolutely horrible. No-one should have to go through that and end up choosing death because of a situation like that.

also, if a girl/guy screw up and get pregnant, that's their own fault.

Agreed.

they can get an "under the table" abortion if they're smart about it.

If they got into that situation, those people probably aren't very smart. I think some people have actually chosen backalley abortions in the past because they weren't in reach of an abortion clinic. Some people are so terrified of how their parents would react that taking a risk at a backalley abortion seems like a better choice. As stupid as that may sound, it would probably be a lot more common if abortions were illegal in some states and the results would be devastating for a lot of families.

[zomfgbie]

Aye, put me in a cannon and fire me off the same direction as that guy, because it's the RIGHT direction!

[rtil]

Isn\\\'t it supposed to be ridiculously hard to become a legal immigrant? Some families became illegal immigrants because they pretty much had no choice. Ever watched the show 30 Days? The illegal immigrants episode could possibly change your mind on the situation or possibly not.

it\\\'s not difficult to become a legal immigrant, it\\\'s just a long process. too long, and complicated, yes, but that doesn\\\'t make border-hopping OK. I don\\\'t have any sympathy for illegals because they have "no choice", and a television show is not going to change my mind about them destroying our economy. if you think being nice is more important than the integrity of our country then you have issues.

you\\\'ll probably change your mind one day when a loaf of bread costs $10.

I believe everyone should be able to get decent medical. I once heard that some person was in a situation where if he didn\\\'t get immediate help from a medical helicopter, he would die. If he did get some help, he would never be able to afford it. His relatives would\\\'ve probably ended up paying the rest of what he couldn\\\'t pay so he choose death. I consider that absolutely horrible. No-one should have to go through that and end up choosing death because of a situation like that.

no, they shouldnt, but we don\\\'t live in a perfect world. you can\\\'t turn everyone\\\'s stories into a fantasy land where everyone gets what they want. our country is almost $8 trillion dollars in debt. tens of thousands of people die every day, and that\\\'s never going to change. regardless of your compassion for that man, you have to realize our federal government doesn\\\'t have the money for universal health care. that\\\'s why social security is going bankrupt in a decade. if we can\\\'t afford social security, how the hell are we going to afford universal health care?

you\\\'re letting your sympathy get in the way of simple logic. it wouldn\\\'t work.

let\\\'s say we did have universal health care. so the guy gets immediate attention from a second-rate doctor with second-rate pay. he\\\'s going to get second-rate treatment and have a smaller chance of living. do you know why people come to the united states to pay for medical treatment? because they want privatized medical treatment. it\\\'s safer, better, and more reliable.

If they got into that situation, those people probably aren\\\'t very smart. I think some people have actually chosen backalley abortions in the past because they weren\\\'t in reach of an abortion clinic. Some people are so terrified of how their parents would react that taking a risk at a backalley abortion seems like a better choice. As stupid as that may sound, it would probably be a lot more common if abortions were illegal in some states and the results would be devastating for a lot of families.

so it would be better for abortion to be legal nationwide regardless of the circumstances, because some people are stupid? that\\\'s what i\\\'m gathering from this.

look, you can\\\'t just say we should have this and that without thinking about where it\\\'s going to come from. and who do you think is going to pay for all of it? the federal government. and what are they going to do to pay for it? print money out of thin air. and what is that going to do to our dollar? ruin it\\\'s value. and what is that going to do do our economy? cause inflation and crash the markets.

then that universal healthcare will be about as useful as a band-aid and a couple advil.

sounds like the guy from the helicopter story is as good as dead with universal healthcare.

[Gavin]

abortion SHOULD be legal

To put it blunt, if you do not agree with the morals of it, then dont get one! Abortion is a choice, and I think the choice should be available to anyone who wants one.

[rtil]

it is already legal because of roe v wade

[W.A.C.]

it's not difficult to become a legal immigrant, it's just a long process. too long, and complicated, yes, but that doesn't make border-hopping OK. I don't have any sympathy for illegals because they have "no choice", and a television show is not going to change my mind about them destroying our economy. if you think being nice is more important than the integrity of our country then you have issues.

For some test an immigrant has to take to become a legal citizen, I think I heard that most Americans wouldn't even be able to pass it. Also, how would it destroy the economy? I haven't taken economics yet so please excuse my ignorance.

you'll probably change your mind one day when a loaf of bread costs $10.

If that ever happened then yeah, I would definitely change my mind.

no, they shouldnt, but we don't live in a perfect world. you can't turn everyone's stories into a fantasy land where everyone gets what they want. our country is almost $8 trillion dollars in debt. tens of thousands of people die every day, and that's never going to change. regardless of your compassion for that man, you have to realize our federal government doesn't have the money for universal health care. that's why social security is going bankrupt in a decade. if we can't afford social security, how the hell are we going to afford universal health care?

I agree that our government currently doesn't have the money for it but Bush is to blame for that. It's a bad situation but some serious changes does need to be made. To be perfectly honest, years from now, I'd rather see higher taxes that are reasonable if it guarantees every single American decent health care. I may be a cheap bastard when it comes to money but I am definitely not a greedy person.

you're letting your sympathy get in the way of simple logic. it wouldn't work.

Currently, it wouldn't work so well right now but years from now, possibly.

let's say we did have universal health care. so the guy gets immediate attention from a second-rate doctor with second-rate pay. he's going to get second-rate treatment and have a smaller chance of living. do you know why people come to the united states to pay for medical treatment? because they want privatized medical treatment. it's safer, better, and more reliable.

Can't there be second rate health care available for everyone and first rate health to the people who are either willing to spend a little more or has a job with good medical benefits?

so it would be better for abortion to be legal nationwide regardless of the circumstances, because some people are stupid? that's what i'm gathering from this.

Not exactly. I was just giving an example of certain situations. To be honest, I somewhat believe a fetus is both a life and potential for life. I absolutely hate abortions unless it's for a situation like rape or a health issue. Despite all this, I believe abortions should be legal. People deserve to have the right to an abortion whether I agree with abortions or not.

I do think there should be some modifications to the abortion law though. Aren't women who have been pregnant for 5 and a half months allowed to get an abortion? Do they really need that much time to decide? If a woman is 4 months pregnant, is there a chance she wouldn't notice? I think they need to make some restrictions on how long a woman has to decide whether to get an abortion or not.

look, you can't just say we should have this and that without thinking about where it's going to come from. and who do you think is going to pay for all of it? the federal government. and what are they going to do to pay for it?

Raise taxes?

print money out of thin air.

That's not good.

and what is that going to do to our dollar? ruin it's value. and what is that going to do do our economy? cause inflation and crash the markets.

If the government constantly printed money out of thin air then yeah, that would probably happen but hopefully the government won't resort to that. If there's no way the government can afford universal health care without printing money out of thin air, hopefully they can fix that problem before considering universal health care.

then that universal healthcare will be about as useful as a band-aid and a couple advil.

sounds like the guy from the helicopter story is as good as dead with universal healthcare.

That comment made me laugh. >_>

[Gavin]

it is already legal because of roe v wade

dont cite court cases on me i know it is legal,


im just providing a viewpoint for the people who think it shouldnt be allowed

PS it is fucking obvious that if we allow illegals to come into this country that our economy will plummit.

[Necronomitr0n]

We should have pregnancy insurance

just a thought

a stupid one, at that

[Nadroj0711]

Btw, if Huckabee managed to win the presidential election, this country would be fucked.

I talked to someone today who said that he was voting for Huckabee
I was like

[CoolDrMoney]

IWannaHuckYouLikeAnAnimal

[davidmoore0]

Currently, it wouldn't work so well right now but years from now, possibly.

No, it will never work.

Raise taxes?

No! That will decrease spending, which will destroy the economy even more.

If the government constantly printed money out of thin air then yeah, that would probably happen but hopefully the government won't resort to that. If there's no way the government can afford universal health care without printing money out of thin air, hopefully they can fix that problem before considering universal health care.

They pretty much already do that. Why do you think the Euro and Pound are worth more than the dollar now?

[rtil]

If the government constantly printed money out of thin air then yeah, that would probably happen but hopefully the government won't resort to that. If there's no way the government can afford universal health care without printing money out of thin air, hopefully they can fix that problem before considering universal health care.

They pretty much already do that. Why do you think the Euro and Pound are worth more than the dollar now?

^ this

[rtil]

it's not difficult to become a legal immigrant, it's just a long process. too long, and complicated, yes, but that doesn't make border-hopping OK. I don't have any sympathy for illegals because they have "no choice", and a television show is not going to change my mind about them destroying our economy. if you think being nice is more important than the integrity of our country then you have issues.

For some test an immigrant has to take to become a legal citizen, I think I heard that most Americans wouldn't even be able to pass it. Also, how would it destroy the economy? I haven't taken economics yet so please excuse my ignorance.

I haven't taken economics either, but if you look at it this way it makes sense:
let's say there are 12 million middle-class and low-class American citizens that need jobs. Then 12 million people come into the country with no citizenship, birth records or papers, and take those jobs. Let's say they get paid $7 to $10 an hour, and work 40 hours a week. In a year, that is $212,160,000,000 on average. That is 212 billion dollars that is
1) not going back into the American economy (most of it is shipped back to Mexico to their families)
2) not being paid taxes on (a lot of these wages are under the table to prevent law enforcement from finding out)
3) used for other illegal purposes (drug trade, etc)


Now, if those 212 billion dollars were being given to real American citizens who earned the right to receive that money by being born and raised in their own nation (what a concept), none of this would happen, and the economy wouldn't suffer.

The reason why the testing is hard is because they want to make sure that the people that come here are serious about being a contribution to this nation. Whether or not an American citizen can pass the test or not is pretty much irrelevant. I don't think it should take 5-10 years to get in like it has been, but that is no excuse for millions to pour in here and destroy our economy. The steady flow of legal immigrants is healthy for our already largely varied melting pot of a nation. Mexico is spoiling the idea of giving a new life in America to legitimate immigrants.

I agree that our government currently doesn't have the money for it but Bush is to blame for that. It's a bad situation but some serious changes does need to be made. To be perfectly honest, years from now, I'd rather see higher taxes that are reasonable if it guarantees every single American decent health care. I may be a cheap bastard when it comes to money but I am definitely not a greedy person.

Increasing taxation doesn't help, as david has pointed out. Not only will it lower consumer spending, but it will also benifit nations like China that already receive huge margins of profit for their imports.

Can't there be second rate health care available for everyone and first rate health to the people who are either willing to spend a little more or has a job with good medical benefits?

lmao, I mean it's possible but you're talking about spending more money and giving favor to the wealthy in a universal health  care plan. People are not going to like that. It's not cost efficient. If medical care was privatized, technically everyone could get first-rate health care. Because you're looking at things on a state-by-state basis, rates and costs can be adjusted based on their economy. The reason why things suck now is because the federal government is too big for its britches. The beauracracy can't efficiently manage 300+ million people. That is why social security will be bankrupt in about a decade. Poor planning and no foresight.

To be honest, I somewhat believe a fetus is both a life and potential for life. I absolutely hate abortions unless it's for a situation like rape or a health issue. Despite all this, I believe abortions should be legal. People deserve to have the right to an abortion whether I agree with abortions or not.

I do think there should be some modifications to the abortion law though. Aren't women who have been pregnant for 5 and a half months allowed to get an abortion? Do they really need that much time to decide? If a woman is 4 months pregnant, is there a chance she wouldn't notice? I think they need to make some restrictions on how long a woman has to decide whether to get an abortion or not.

In Roe v Wade it states that an abortion is no longer legal after the fetus is 'viable', or able to survive outside of the fetus. This is 6 months into a pregnancy. I think that is plenty of time for a decision, and a decent law.

The only reason Roe v Wade is one of the most controversial court decisions is because of die-hard pro-life people who have either lived with the regret of getting an abortion or are completely ignorant to it and have no idea what it's like to go through it, directly or indirectly.

[W.A.C.]

I'll write a decent reply to that later. I do want to state that I saw Sicko recently and that countries like Canada sound like they have a great medical system.

[Gavin]

Canada in no way has a great health care system

You know you should be careful and take movies like that with a grain of salt because they do bring up good points but it so goddam bias you gotta be sure to sift through the shit

[rtil]

They only showed the 5 people Canada that like their healthcare system. Long lines, sub-standard service and more apathy are present in their healthcare system. If there's anything worse than paying a huge medical bill, it's having to wait 3 days in line to get a check-up for a cold.

[Sinitron]

money is gay

[psi43]

[long post]

[W.A.C.]

I had a dream last night that I forgot to vote in the primaries. Hilary won the democratic vote and I forgot who won the Republican vote but it wasn't Ron Paul.

[rtil]

Rudy Guliani came to my town about a week ago, and there was a huge line of Ron Paul supporters across the road. I asked if they had signs so they gave me a Ron Paul R[evol]ution sign and bumper sticker.

I hate the idea that he's scoffing off the idea of running as a 3rd Party candidate. I want him to get the Republican nomination, but I'm pretty sure that it isn't going to happen.

he said he's 99.9% sure he wouldn't run .. i think what he means is he doesn't want to, but if his supporters had a large outcry for it,  he probably would. even if he didn't win the nomination i'd still write his name in, and so would many other ron paul supporters.

also, i'd have more faith in his chances at winning the nomination. in general polls he wasn't even registering a few months ago, now he's polling 10-11% in states like iowa and south carolina. zogby also wrote a recent article called "ron paul will surprise you" , noting that a lot of his supporters don't show up in national polls because they are unlikely voters. he believes ron paul will poll double digits across the nation. i think he's right.

I had a dream last night that I forgot to vote in the primaries. Hilary won the democratic vote and I forgot who won the Republican vote but it wasn't Ron Paul.

it wasn't mike huckabee was it