what's wrong with hentai?

[Gladius]

the stuff

[rtil]

oh and one more thing, since the white knights (hi joey, taylor) have already presented themselves - i have bad news for you cvg, every guy has sexual fantasies, some that you probably wouldn't like, but that's just the way our minds work. some guys will pretend they don't, but they secretly do. doesn't mean that we are going to act out on them or that it makes us a different or worse person. i've never done anything to a girl that they didnt' want me to do, and i never would. assuming that one would project erotic fantasies into the real world unwarranted is the same logic that the people who say video games cause violence follow.

it's the simple ability to separate reality from fantasy that every psychologically healthy human possesses. if you really think that i am incapable of that then i'm sorry you feel that way and that's disappointing to me.

[trent bortknob]

girls have sexual fantasies just like guys do. i think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who has absolutely no sexual desires. you meet people who claim to be asexual but i honestly approach people like that with extreme skepticism. it almost just seems like a cop out term for people who are too confused with their own sexual identity or just too awkward socially to have a healthy sexual relationship with anyone.

i think that CVG is just saying that, if someone can get off to the idea of a woman (fictional or otherwise) enduring extreme pain for the pleasure of a man or group of men, then that person is probably not someone that she (CVG) would want to have a sexual relationship with; and that's probably because, while yes, there probably is a difference between this person's perception of reality and fantasy, he is still deriving sexual pleasure from the concept of what he is seeing.

can you masturbate to something that you yourself would never do? something that you do not condone? if so, this argument does not work, but it kinda seems unlikely that, for most people, this would be possible.

obviously the women in porn are consenting to whatever sex acts they engage in. we're not talking about rape here. but i could still never get off to a woman (or a man) being put through extreme pain. it's just not something that i'm into. and i think that, for a lot of people, learning that someone else CAN or DOES find that prospect sexually appealing would be cause a change in perception of that person's character. not necessarily for better or for worse, either.

[rtil]

in the same way that i can shoot someone in the head and kill them in a game and not condone murder, i can find erotic art to be sexually and aesthetically pleasing and not condone sexual violence. however i don't think any art that i or others have posted is really all that appalling, violent or disturbing, and let's not get carried away here, they are drawings. yeah, hentai is unrealistic - that's kind of the point. it's escapist in ways and like other forms of entertainment there's nothing wrong with that.

[trent bortknob]

we can't lie to ourselves and act like our sexual fantasies and fetishes are in no way an indicator of our own desires. people watch porn with women giving guys blowjobs and girls getting anally penetrated because they find these ideas sexually desirable and, probably, would enjoy engaging in them. or at least they think they would.

so, when you have people looking at pornography of very young looking women (or explicitly children, as it sometimes is), of women being raped, of pain infliction, whatever it is, it doesn't really matter whether or not it's "real" porn, hentai, or crudely drawn stick figures. the real point is that the concept that is being displayed in the images is being deemed sexually desirable by someone. now, if no one is getting hurt, if there are no victims, then legality plays no role in this. however, you can still make personal judgements, as we all do. i would think of someone who looks at cartoon child porn only very slightly higher than i would someone who looks at the real thing, and only because one involves real victims. the concept is the same thing, and i still find the concept abhorrent.

in this way, i'm not really targeting hentai. i have no special fixation with hentai, i just think it's stupid that some of you look up really fucked up hentai and act like it's not that bad because it's a drawing. it's the same general idea and it serves the same basic purpose.

[trent bortknob]

i typed out my last response before seeing your comment, so don't view it in that context. i'm gonna respond to yours in a sec

[Gladius]

in the same way that i can shoot someone in the head and kill them in a game and not condone murder

if you were deriving sexual pleasure from this it would be a very different story!

[rtil]

it would, but both acts still trigger an endorphin response in the brain

[trent bortknob]

in the same way that i can shoot someone in the head and kill them in a game and not condone murder, i can find erotic art to be sexually and aesthetically pleasing and not condone sexual violence. however i don't think any art that i or others have posted is really all that appalling, violent or disturbing, and let's not get carried away here, they are drawings. yeah, hentai is unrealistic - that's kind of the point. it's escapist in ways and like other forms of entertainment there's nothing wrong with that.

i do agree that you can kill people in games and have no real desire to commit murder. the thing is, with sexual desire tied in i really do think it becomes a different problem. i don't think you really see people look up things in porn that they would not like to participate in in real life. i can play a video game and do things in it that are totally unforgivable, i can even just do things that i don't like doing. but in the isolated world of video gaming or movie watching or whatever, i dont think that ever really becomes problematic.

maybe this is a generalization, but i dont feel like people generally look at porn that contains images of acts they would never ever do. and they certainly are not turned on by it. how often do you find guys who are honestly not sexually attracted to men, watching gay pornography and having it evoke the same feelings of sexual lust and desire as something that caters to their actual orientation? does that happen? is that even possible?

i'm legitimately curious as to your answer to that, because i dont know. i mean, i've known a lot of people with very out-there sexual preferences. i have known many guys who are generally attracted to females but would have no issues watching gay porn. but could they ever feel the same way about gay porn that they do about porn that is aimed at their specific desire? i think that's important.

i agree with gladius. if a kid only plays videogames where he kills innocent people, to the point where it seems like it's an obsession of sorts, it is more serious than someone just who just passively plays video games, some of which involve killing people, and doesnt really focus on that aspect. in my stupid opinion, someone having a specific sexual fetish is more like the kid with the obsession than it is the guy who is passively playing the games. some people just watch porn because it reminds them of their own sexual experiences, it's not something that they fixate over. and some people have fetishes, and its not like fetishes are always some terrible thing or anything either. some people have foot fetishes. it's not like i think that someone having a foot fetish tells me some deep shit about their character, they just like feet. no big deal. but there is a line to be drawn, and when the line is crossed it doesnt matter if its hentai or what.

[Crabarms]

 There is as much reasons to not like hentai as there is to porn, being that there's tons kinds clearly wrong and kinds perfectly fine. It doesn't  appeal to me because a lot of it is generic looking and fake. I do not care about anyone's interest in it, its just one of those things I would rather not know or talk about unless its pointing out how horribly funny it can be when it was not intentionally made to be that way.

[rtil]

i do agree that you can kill people in games and have no real desire to commit murder. the thing is, with sexual desire tied in i really do think it becomes a different problem. i don't think you really see people look up things in porn that they would not like to participate in in real life. i can play a video game and do things in it that are totally unforgivable, i can even just do things that i don't like doing. but in the isolated world of video gaming or movie watching or whatever, i dont think that ever really becomes problematic.

the thing you still don't seem to grasp about pornography is that it is an act - girls fake certain things in porn because they turn guys on. in asian porn, for example, girls pretend to cry like they're in pain because it makes men feel more sexually empowered. that's just one example but it's something where you may see a hentai drawing and assume someone likes it for the wrong reasons because you don't understand the image. the intent of the artist is also irrelevant.

maybe this is a generalization, but i dont feel like people generally look at porn that contains images of acts they would never ever do. and they certainly are not turned on by it. how often do you find guys who are honestly not sexually attracted to men, watching gay pornography and having it evoke the same feelings of sexual lust and desire as something that caters to their actual orientation? does that happen? is that even possible?

not if you're straight. sexual orientation really has nothing to do with this.

i'm legitimately curious as to your answer to that, because i dont know. i mean, i've known a lot of people with very out-there sexual preferences. i have known many guys who are generally attracted to females but would have no issues watching gay porn. but could they ever feel the same way about gay porn that they do about porn that is aimed at their specific desire? i think that's important.

it's 100% unimportant and irrelevant

but there is a line to be drawn, and when the line is crossed it doesnt matter if its hentai or what.

i agree - but no one can agree one where the line should be drawn. so at the end of the day, if the individual does not blur reality and fantasy and end up hurting someone, that's all you can really ask for.

[CVG]

Rtil I have nothing against you or anyone who posted stuff of fantasizing about abused women in sexual acts, there are women out there with rape/abuse fantasies too, so to each his own and don't try to categorize it as a "guy thing" and patronize me with a "sorry to tell you but we are just guys". It's a psychological fetish and that's something anyone can develop. Oh and not ALL guys like rough sex that hurts their partner like what's in those pics so I don't believe it's some universal thing all guys want (there's a reason dominatrix stuff exists). All I'm saying is that when you put out your fantasies don't be surprised when a person looks at them and goes "yeah that's probably a little too much information to know what you jack off to", and maybe starts to contemplate about what might have triggered that desire within that person... and yes I do sometimes think you are obsessed with anime women (nothing wrong with that okay!) but no worries I wasn't implying that you a bad person, or that I believe you are going to go act-out these pics on real women now haha. You seem to be a smart and very nice person and I am not going to judge you for what you like behind closed doors, all I was saying in that last paragraph was my own opinion on what I SEE when I look at hentai like that....I'm the female, so in those pics I look at them and reflect "do I like what's going on or how they are portrayed?" Nope, I don't. And there you go.

[rtil]

i didn't mean to imply women don't have fetishes or fantasies, but guys are still "wired" differently than girls (for the most part) when it comes to sex. i'm sorry how i worded that, it was rude. i also don't see how rough sex always means that it is painful for the girl, some girls like rough sex, ive been with girls who like rough sex , it doesnt have to be painful and some people do enjoy mixing pain and pleasure. that being said i don't really see how all the pics i posted the girls look like they are in pain nor do i collect them because i think they're in pain, to me they're just "sex faces" and i don't find girls in visible pain to be attractive. 

obviously what you and i see is going to be different. that is just what i see. and i'm not surprised that some people don't like hentai , but i am surprised when people treat it differently to porn. i put it out there, so obviously i'm comfortable with showing that to people. if i cared about what people thought about me i'd pretend to be someone i'm not and that would make me unhappy. but this is who i am and i'm not afraid to admit it.

[Sheepy]

If there's a certain type of hentai I don't like, i.e: rape or domestic brutality, I won't look at it. Doesn't mean it's all like that. There's plenty cute and romantic hentai out there that's actually pretty empowering for a woman.

Not naming anything in particular or anything~

[trent bortknob]

i do agree that you can kill people in games and have no real desire to commit murder. the thing is, with sexual desire tied in i really do think it becomes a different problem. i don't think you really see people look up things in porn that they would not like to participate in in real life. i can play a video game and do things in it that are totally unforgivable, i can even just do things that i don't like doing. but in the isolated world of video gaming or movie watching or whatever, i dont think that ever really becomes problematic.

the thing you still don't seem to grasp about pornography is that it is an act - girls fake certain things in porn because they turn guys on. in asian porn, for example, girls pretend to cry like they're in pain because it makes men feel more sexually empowered. that's just one example but it's something where you may see a hentai drawing and assume someone likes it for the wrong reasons because you don't understand the image. the intent of the artist is also irrelevant.

maybe this is a generalization, but i dont feel like people generally look at porn that contains images of acts they would never ever do. and they certainly are not turned on by it. how often do you find guys who are honestly not sexually attracted to men, watching gay pornography and having it evoke the same feelings of sexual lust and desire as something that caters to their actual orientation? does that happen? is that even possible?

not if you're straight. sexual orientation really has nothing to do with this.

i'm legitimately curious as to your answer to that, because i dont know. i mean, i've known a lot of people with very out-there sexual preferences. i have known many guys who are generally attracted to females but would have no issues watching gay porn. but could they ever feel the same way about gay porn that they do about porn that is aimed at their specific desire? i think that's important.

it's 100% unimportant and irrelevant

but there is a line to be drawn, and when the line is crossed it doesnt matter if its hentai or what.

i agree - but no one can agree one where the line should be drawn. so at the end of the day, if the individual does not blur reality and fantasy and end up hurting someone, that's all you can really ask for.

all i was doing with the sexual orientation thing was trying to establish the importance of sexual desire in relation to sexual activity. i knew that when i was writing it, i was having a hard time really making the point come clear.

anyways, to sum this up because i don't really care to talk about this anymore: i don't think that there's really much "wrong" with hentai that isn't "wrong" with porn. it's just as unrealistic, although hentai can be a lot more exaggerated (and there are limits to how realistic it can be, especially when it's animation and not just pictures), it can be just as degrading. one benefit of hentai is it's pretty easy to find very, i almost want to say "pure", "lovey dovey" sex scenes and relationships, which is just a very different flavor than a lot of porn where it's just like WATCH HOT BLONDE MILF TAKE HUGE COCK.

but even all of the stuff i mentioned being "wrong" with porn is not really "wrong" in any objective sense, it's just something that i does not really attract me sexually. i've realized that i'm just not into the over-sexualization of women, so in general porn is something that i have never been able to really enjoy. even when i did watch porn as a teen, i could only ever watch lesbians anyways. at the time it wasn't ever thought through, but i think it was probably because in all of the porn with guys they say derogatory things to the women and ejaculate on their faces and i always found it really nasty.

but i'm not claiming that i'm better than anyone because of this, if anything i'm the odd one out, as most guys genuinely like all of the aspects of porn that i dislike, and many women really enjoy being sexualized. it's something beyond my understanding, and considering how widespread it is (and how based it is on human evolution), i think it's beyond my criticism.

so, what's wrong with hentai? not that much, i just don't really like it bro. the real issue here for me is whether or not certain fetishes and obsessions can maybe indicate the desire to implement their fetish in real life. i think the answer to that is: probably. and some fetishes out there really make you wonder about a person's psychological condition, or at least their psychological past/upbringing. and that's what i was saying about a line being drawn, that line indicating when a sexual fetish may lead to dangerous, irresponsible, or harmful activities. now, that's more related to the person than it is to the format (of porn, that is), but if one is posting (and i'm not saying that you, specifically, are) really odd, violent, or incriminating sexual pictures of any kind, he shouldn't expect to not be judged for it.

[G3no]

I believe you're trying to sound like the clean one. You know there isn't porn with just women being 'cummed' on their faces and being degraded;but that there is porn where nobody, male or female, is degraded at all and aren't made to look like 'nasty / disgusting' animals.

[creamcorn]

men are pigs
women are saints

[sev]

maybe this is a generalization, but i dont feel like people generally look at porn that contains images of acts they would never ever do. and they certainly are not turned on by it.

whoa, what did i just wake up to? have you ever masturbated before? you can fantasize about anything you want, and no one will ever find out about it. it's a fantasy! it's whatever the hell you want it to be. there are so many things wrong with this among every other statement you've made in this thread that it's actually shocking to me, and i wish someone like zekey gave a shit enough about this thread to lay in a more detailed and brutal counter-argument because you're clearly debating about a subject you know absolutely nothing about.

[redmongoose]

whoa, what did i just wake up to? have you ever masturbated before? you can fantasize about anything you want, and no one will ever find out about it.

until you post it on tba in that huge thread in general thats been the only active thread for the past couple of weeks

[Kooh]

whoa, what did i just wake up to? have you ever masturbated before? you can fantasize about anything you want, and no one will ever find out about it.

until you post it on tba in that huge thread in general thats been the only active thread for the past couple of weeks