Tweening

[Thor]

The sentiment that I get while reading many of the posts here is that tweening is a horrible, hideous red headed step sister that you keep locked in a trunk and in the attic and to avoid at all costs.

But not all computer interpolated animation is bad:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qqKHgYsKcA4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DK3ZKBlH9cs

But really, tweened character animation is really like the traditional cutout animation- as long as they adhere to the principles and have enough articulation/joints in the character they're animating, I see it as a legitimate form of cartooning. (see: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zA0f0LZffBM )

...that being said, most of the stuff that's crap usually doesn't have that articulation, or a good story for that matter. But don't completely discount tweening as a "bad" form of animating.

[rtil]

why are you using 3d as a 2nd example when we clearly discuss 2d formats
anyway you have the wrong idea. i think we all know that there are good ways to use the tween tool. i also think you know that most of us come from a newgrounds background, where style is replaced with nothing and thrown on the screen
of course there are great tweened animations. foster's home for imaginary friends is mostly made up of tweens, but their strong flat style and use of easing makes it work
we don't need a history lesson - we're just being honest

a majority of flash work (tweened or not) simply sucks.

[Gerkinman]

Agreeing with Rtil, Tweening is fine when used appropriately. Flat and Stylized art tends to work alot better with tweens then it does with fbf, Fosters being a good example, and i believe this is too.
Patapon
Infact i have plans to work on some highly stylised vector cartoons in the future that will be done entirely with tweens. At the same time, most flash animators tend to use tweened animation for sitcom set ups where it ups the boredom factor by taking personality out of the characters along with the usual horrible writing that fills most flash comedy. But yeh, tweening is a simple form of animation, and should only be used with simple art styles.

[Thor]

Yes, a majority of flash tweened stuff sucks because they're not done properly. I think that the wrong message is being sent- Everyone freaks out when they see something is tweened, and then it's instantly disregarded as noobish. "Tweeners" should be pointed out to the RIGHT way of tweening stuff (see: jib jab), not get a billion comments saying "TWEENING IZ FOR NOOBZ!" Typically there's many other reasons why a cartoon like that fails, but no one points those out (I'm generalizing)

The reason why I put the 3D example in there is because character animation is character animation, no matter what medium it's in. 3D animation is the ultimate form of tweening, since you're still defining two keyframes and letting the computer do the tweening, which is pretty much the same thing you do in Flash (only with a couple more steps). I feel that it drives the point home, so I'm sticking with it.

[rtil]

3d has got a lot of its own issues when it comes to tweening and easing. you can still fbf in 3d. the mediums are completely different and the benefits and disadvantages of tweening in either piece of software are totally different.

[Gerkinman]

I remember when 3D was first taking off, it was all animated in tradition stop motion using wireframes of the characters and then digitized. 3D just allowed the stop motion gaps to be to be smoothedd out. Ofcourse its changed alot since those days.

[Thor]

3d has got a lot of its own issues when it comes to tweening and easing. you can still fbf in 3d. the mediums are completely different and the benefits and disadvantages of tweening in either piece of software are totally different.

I had to do a very fast run for my 3D animation class last semester, and yes, I did resort to picking through it frame by frame to get it perfect. But that came at the end as I was trying to get it finaled. 3D animators typically don't work frame by frame to start with- it's counter-productive.

(I'm assuming you've done 3D animation rtil, but for anyone who hasn't or isn't familiar with it:)
Bearing in mind that the guy who taught me this worked at Pixar for a couple years, you don't start out like in hand drawn animation keying all your poses. You first start with the base node (the whole body) and then work from broad to specific (you animate the hand first, then the fingers, then the finger tips). It's still tweening, though the approach is different.

I remember when 3D was first taking off, it was all animated in tradition stop motion using wireframes of the characters and then digitized. 3D just allowed the stop motion gaps to be to be smoothedd out. Ofcourse its changed alot since those days.

From what I'm told, back in the day Pixar animated Toy Story by plugging in numbers, none of this "grab a handle and turn the character's arm" stuff. I could be wrong though. I actually wound up looking at numbers and graphs a lot (I was the designated anim fixer).

[rtil]

i absolutely despise animating in 3d. i hate the graph editor and i hate the software. it's so mechanical and heartless. i don't think i'll ever get used to it. 2d for life for me heh

[Gerkinman]

3D animation isnt so much animation as it is pure mathematics and equations.

[Thor]

No, 3D is puppeteering + tweening on steroids. You can get the same end result (minus squash and stretch, minus wacky sight gags (see: Bob Clampett, Tex Avery), it just takes a much different approach to get to. The purpose of animation is to give life through movement- nowhere does the definition mention what medium it's in.

(I also prefer 2D hand drawn to 3D, but I don't disregard its strengths)

[Gerkinman]

The fact squash and stretch doesnt work with 3D is a huge factor, the very thing that made cartoons cartoony in the first place is missing. Ive seen it done with clay, i cant see why they cant figure out a way to do it with 3D.

[MRat]

I've a version of stretch and squash done with 3D animation, but it would certainly be a bitch to bring about. You'd have to, at least in my mind, do a series of stille images almost where you FBF changes you make to the model itself, where you squash or stretch it, and take those frams, line them up and make an avi or whathave and then edit it into the film. Theoretically I do think it's possible, but almost it would probably rape you mind to do it.

I've done very little work with 3D because 1, I'm no good at it, and 2, I just like the control you have with 2D animation, everything on there is you. 3D is so impersonal I find.


But looking at The Bowler Hat Guy in Meet the Robinsons, I clearly see soem fantastic principles of animation that are applied to both 2D and 3D being used.





As for the tween issue, no one will say it better than Rtil's post, so I'll leave it at that.

[ZekeySpaceyLizard]

The fact squash and stretch doesnt work with 3D is a huge factor, the very thing that made cartoons cartoony in the first place is missing. Ive seen it done with clay, i cant see why they cant figure out a way to do it with 3D.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Om5HtpTisJs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ulXT6JBzTUk&feature=related

[rtil]

it's very easy to make stretchy bones in 3d rig. once you apply a skin to the model, the polys stretch accordingly.

[Gerkinman]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Om5HtpTisJs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ulXT6JBzTUk&feature=related

Even with those examples the squash and stretch is rather limited, and im still yet to see something that shows that 3D allows for takes like in Tex Avery's films. Well, outside of the mask anyway.

[rtil]

lmao

[MRat]

lmao

[Gerkinman]

lollilops

[Zwickel]

I recommend you guys watch the stuff by the woman that made Nim's Winter Tale, I think it's on newgrounds she is said to be the godess of tweens, great stuff.

I just think that tweens are really limited for unexperienced artists (92% of Newgrounds) and that they should first learn how to animate by themselves instead of letting the computer do all the work.

[Necronomitr0n]

Daddy would you like some sausage