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Main => General => Topic started by: Khawner_ on January 26, 2009 01:44 AM

Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on January 26, 2009 01:44 AM
Well, I have taken a look at all of my previous works, and understood the sad truth that nothing I have made is original. And so, I am currently working on the last sprite movie I shall ever make. But when that movie is done, I would like to be prepared for drawn animation, so I began to practice.

This is my first fbf practice, a small walk cycle of a character that vaguely resembles myself.
http://spamtheweb.com/ul/upload/250109/740...me_Practice.php (http://spamtheweb.com/ul/upload/250109/74039_Khawner_Frame_By_Frame_Practice.php)

I thought for something like this, I would come here. Most people always say my work is good no matter what it is, but it's fairly obviouse that they only say that to be nice. I need people who will nit pick at every little detail that can be fixed, and I was hoping that you people can do that. I don't even care if you talk about how shitty it is for a while, as long as I get critisism that will benefit me in some way. So yeah, say whatever, as long as it's not something completley useless like, "lol it's gay."

 And yes...I know his eye is really big.

Well, critisize away.

(also, he lacks a mouth and eyebrows so it is easier to add facial expressions to him later on)
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Daveb0t on January 26, 2009 01:59 AM
I think you need to work on it
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on January 26, 2009 02:14 AM
Quote from: DavebutI think you need to work on it

How so?
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: DrRumack on January 26, 2009 02:20 AM
doesnt move right, and the eye just looks hideous

you need to learn how to make a proper walk cycle

may i suggest the animators survival guide
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on January 26, 2009 03:37 AM
people dont walk like that

look up "walk cycle" in google

walking is basically the human body falling down and catching itself on one foot, and then using that leg to propel the body forward into a fall again only to be caught on the other foot

its not just a body hovering in midair while the legs kinda flail around underneath


makes him look like a puppet ya see the kids they listen to the rap
which gives them the brain damage
with their hippin and a hoppin and a bippin and a boppin
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on January 26, 2009 04:34 AM
what zekey said.

on another subject, I have noticed you almost all the time use the same colors when drawing characters, why dont you experiment a bit with a different collor pallete?

I just think he is almost TOO pink.

still good luck.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: rtil on January 26, 2009 05:15 AM
you need to think about animation as a sequence of strong poses coming together to form movement, not cheap flash assets bobbing around to flailing appendages
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: f0d on January 26, 2009 06:37 AM
i dont know what the best advice is when its this bad

take art classes? that might help him but might not, they're not for everyone

practice? if he keeps practicing using the same style, he'll always suck

copy someone elses shit? it will look better than this shit but will he really learn anything?

the animator's survival guide? is he really ready for that book yet? i think not
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: psi43 on January 26, 2009 07:14 PM
my advice is: make flashes with a seriously hilarious humor then the art wouldn't matter

like mark m

i mean i couldn't really suggest you anything else that could help
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on January 26, 2009 10:55 PM
Well thanks for all the help guys. I can't use my computer at the moment, but when I get it back, I shall post in this thread again with a completely new and improved walk cycle.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: unclephil on January 27, 2009 12:27 AM
Quote from: MrScriblammay i suggest the animators survival guide

lol.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: SnawsBall on January 27, 2009 12:52 AM
Quote from: MrScriblamdoesnt move right, and the eye just looks hideous

you need to learn how to make a proper walk cycle

may i suggest the animators survival guide
0;mfg ur so pro, tell me more.............................plz bud ((((:
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on January 27, 2009 01:23 AM
oh hey its squeef
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Michelle on January 27, 2009 02:24 AM
i don't understand why most of you are being so discouraging
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: DrRumack on January 27, 2009 05:42 PM
who's being discouraging
we're trying to help him
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: psi43 on January 27, 2009 06:17 PM
Quote from: MrScriblamwho's being discouraging

guess she means me!
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: lenko on January 27, 2009 09:36 PM
Ya needs to learn timin and inbetweenin and well, learn from life.

Record yourself walking and use it as reference, notice the little things your body does and build upon them! etc etc

I'm shit at walk cycles but hey.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on January 27, 2009 10:39 PM
The boogley made some small fbf tutorials for a collab a while ago. I really learned a lot about it watching these videos he posted.

http://theboogley.newgrounds.com/news/post/20303 (http://theboogley.newgrounds.com/news/post/20303)

watch them a couple of times so you get what hes doing there.

l8r!
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: f0d on January 28, 2009 04:31 AM
Quote from: michellei don\\\'t understand why most of you are being so discouraging
uhhh, cuz he asked for it?

and i dont mean "he was askin for it" i mean he literally said to rip him a new one
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on January 29, 2009 05:21 PM
hahahaha ahahhaah.....
hahaha
AHHAHA
hah.

.













HAHAHAH
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: shura on January 30, 2009 05:48 AM
Quote from: emanThe boogley made some small fbf tutorials for a collab a while ago. I really learned a lot about it watching these videos he posted.

http://theboogley.newgrounds.com/news/post/20303 (http://theboogley.newgrounds.com/news/post/20303)

watch them a couple of times so you get what hes doing there.

l8r!

ERROR – no News Post with that ID exists - TheBoogley may have deleted it.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on January 30, 2009 11:24 PM
thats weird. It was there when I posted it
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on February 4, 2009 06:18 AM
Alrighty, I am back with my second try at a walk cycle.
http://spamtheweb.com/ul/upload/040209/444...ALLY_DID_IT.php (http://spamtheweb.com/ul/upload/040209/4444_I_FINALLY_DID_IT.php)
Sorry it took so long, anyways, I decided to animate it in 12 fps rather than the usual 30 fps so it is easier for practise.
And I fixed his huge ass eye.
Any thoughts? The critism stuff I mentioned in the beggining of this topic still goes.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: jjjjjjjjjj on February 4, 2009 06:30 AM
I'll say it's a little Improvment.
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.idleworm.com%2Fhow%2Fpic%2Fa0002%2Fwlk08.gif&hash=ac5b86e10e53ea3c9f5f3dc3e32c48515fd6cf2e)

See, the body needs to move as well and not stay stiff like that.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: rtil on February 4, 2009 06:38 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: f0d on February 4, 2009 06:47 AM
make the legs twice as long at the very least

and make them move twice as fast

give his hands some more detail

give him shoulders and a neck

rework the face so it has at least a slight resemblance to normal human proportions
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: rtil on February 4, 2009 07:02 AM
Quote from: f0dmake the legs twice as long at the very least

and make them move twice as fast

give his hands some more detail

give him shoulders and a neck

rework the face so it has at least a slight resemblance to normal human proportions
i dunno if you have to make everything have a resemblance to normal human proportions, you could go for a more out-of-whack cartoon style

but the real problem is that you haven't found a style yet.  it looks very generic and , well, like something a typical newgrounder would make
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: f0d on February 4, 2009 07:08 AM
right, its alright to look amateur but it has to be distinct
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on February 4, 2009 09:55 AM
looks like you didnt take the advice we gave


the character still doesnt move like he's walking

he looks like a sliding torso with some legs swinging underneath

when a person walks its not just the legs that move
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on February 4, 2009 01:36 PM
Welp, It's back to the drawing board with me.
3 is the charm as they say, so maybe I will get it right this time.
Thanks for all of your help so far  

And yeah, I'll be posting back in this thread when I'm finished with the third one.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: f0d on February 5, 2009 07:44 AM
when i said twice as fast with the legs i meant twice as slow, in sync with the arm movements. make sure the arms swing in the opposite direction as the legs

Quote from: Zekeywalking is basically the human body falling down and catching itself on one foot, and then using that leg to propel the body forward into a fall again only to be caught on the other foot
best advice yet. give the character weight. bend its knees
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Greenkitten on February 5, 2009 11:03 AM
I'd suggest making the body move in a wavy motion first if your animating it going across the screen. or maybe animate it in static move clip and tween the torso up and down then fill in the legs and the arm movements.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on March 22, 2009 11:36 PM
Ok, I'm back! Thought I forgot about this, didn't you?  

Well, here's my third attempt-

http://spamtheweb.com/ul/upload/220309/705...cking_Cycle.php (http://spamtheweb.com/ul/upload/220309/70596_The_Third_Fucking_Cycle.php)

My guess is that the main thing I may have screwed up this time, is the weight thing.
If I did that (or more) please do say so.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on March 23, 2009 01:01 AM
thats kinda better but it still looks like a flying torso.

I believe you cant just make a proper walk cycle with this strategy. you have to draw the complete character everytime. If you just base the position of arms, head and legs around a static torso it will never look ok.

Also when people run their legs dont move so fast.

Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on March 23, 2009 01:39 AM
Quote from: emanthats kinda better but it still looks like a flying torso.

I believe you cant just make a proper walk cycle with this strategy. you have to draw the complete character everytime. If you just base the position of arms, head and legs around a static torso it will never look ok.

Also when people run their legs dont move so fast.

Back to ze drawing board again. >_>

Thank you everyone, for your undying patience with me.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: f0d on March 23, 2009 04:20 AM
you are showing improvement more with this one than any of your others. but its still not there. its definitely way too fast, and too many tweens. if you redraw his entire body each time you also have to make sure it remains consistent, which can be done with onion skin. id also recommend a new look for his head again but if you insist on that same style fine. i just really hate the cat eye no mouth look though, it doesnt work at all.

a few things that might help you... dont make it a run, you arent ready for a run. first make him walk normally. also, animate the walk without a scrolling background. have him walk from one side of the screen to the other, it will give you a better idea of a natural walking motion. while the left foot and body move forward, the right foot remains anchored to its spot on the ground. when the left foot steps down, the body moves down with it and a few frames later the right foot leaves the ground. this would be easier if i could illustrate it for you but im too lazy
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Mightydein on March 23, 2009 08:14 AM
If you do use tweens think more in terms of just arms, legs and body since it is a lot more complex than that.

The foot alone has a few joints in there.

Tweens for walk cycles have to be very subtle and use all the joints in the foot, legs, knees, arms and the wrinkles in the clothes need to move a little bit.

don't forget to add even a little bit of light and shadow to drawings because even if your drawings might not be great.

darker and lighter shades of color make it look cooler.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: rtil on March 23, 2009 09:48 AM
i think you should drop color and a backgrond for now and just stick with practicing the basics.

draw a line for the surface ground, then sketch out your rough frames

work in 24fps. break your walk cycle down into parts. get it on 16's, 8's , 4's and then 2's. hit the passing positions first. try to draw the entire walk cycle on a single layer. start with just the torso and the legs, and don't add more until it looks right. if you don't get the timing and the bounce of the walk right, no one's going to buy it
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on March 23, 2009 11:41 AM
Quote from: f0dyou are showing improvement more with this one than any of your others. but its still not there. its definitely way too fast, and too many tweens. if you redraw his entire body each time you also have to make sure it remains consistent, which can be done with onion skin. id also recommend a new look for his head again but if you insist on that same style fine. i just really hate the cat eye no mouth look though, it doesnt work at all.

a few things that might help you... dont make it a run, you arent ready for a run. first make him walk normally. also, animate the walk without a scrolling background. have him walk from one side of the screen to the other, it will give you a better idea of a natural walking motion. while the left foot and body move forward, the right foot remains anchored to its spot on the ground. when the left foot steps down, the body moves down with it and a few frames later the right foot leaves the ground. this would be easier if i could illustrate it for you but im too lazy

Yeah, I think I\\\'m going to try that now. Thanks

Also, the no mouth thing (and eyebrow for that matter) wasn\\\'t drawn on because it\\\'s easier to add them later on.

Quote from: Mightydeindon\\\'t forget to add even a little bit of light and shadow to drawings because even if your drawings might not be great.

darker and lighter shades of color make it look cooler.

But I did do that...I guess it was a bit unoticable...
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Mightydein on March 23, 2009 09:27 PM
Quote from: KhawnerBut I did do that...I guess it was a bit unoticable...

Okay i looked again and yes you were right it was there. The darker shade is actually pretty subtle so maybe just darken the shadow and your good to go.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on March 23, 2009 10:07 PM
I think that the main problem with your animation/drawing is that you have not found your style so far. start there.

I think I sort of developed my style by basically mixing different characteristics/colors/things from cartoons I liked to watch but I think everyone finds different things cool or fun or amusing so their style is somehow influenced by that.

Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: unclephil on March 24, 2009 02:23 AM
animator's survival kit.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on March 24, 2009 02:31 AM
Quote from: King Dededeanimator's survival kit.

hes not ready
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Daveb0t on March 24, 2009 06:20 PM
Quote from: eman
Quote from: King Dededeanimator's survival kit.

hes not ready
theres no such thing as not ready
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on May 22, 2009 04:15 AM
Welp, I have been working on my walk cycle, and I must say it is kickass.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: jjjjjjjjjj on May 22, 2009 04:18 AM
[9:52:17 PM] charley ortega: I wonder if I could post a video of me doing the moonwalk at TBA in my walk cycle thread
[09:49:42 p.m.] Khawner dice:then they would be all like, "WOW, You have not listened to anything we tell you-Holy shit he's actually doing it"
[09:49:47 p.m.] charley ortega dice:isnt it supossed to be an art thread
[09:49:57 p.m.] Khawner dice:Dancing is an art form
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on May 22, 2009 04:21 AM
actually:

Quote from: j_seed[9:52:17   p.m.] khawner dice: I wonder if I could post a video of me doing the moonwalk at TBA in my walk cycle thread
[09:49:42 p.m.] Khawner dice:then they would be all like, "WOW, You have not listened to anything we tell you-Holy shit he's actually doing it"
[09:49:47 p.m.] charley ortega dice:isnt it supossed to be an art thread
[09:49:57 p.m.] Khawner dice:Dancing is an art form
fixd
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: PaperBat on May 22, 2009 04:34 AM
I'm sorry khawner, do you live to make yourself look like a total fool??
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: unclephil on May 22, 2009 04:37 AM
Quote from: PaperBatI'm sorry khawner, do you live to make yourself look like a total fool??

lmao you made a new account just for this.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: PaperBat on May 22, 2009 04:52 AM
Quote from: shmeckelbot
Quote from: PaperBatI'm sorry khawner, do you live to make yourself look like a total fool??

lmao you made a new account just for this.

Indeed I did, which is why I may add, khawner, your doing the moonwalk all wrong, you look extremly stiff.

Bad Walkcycles
Bad Moonwalking
Maybe your just naturally bad at walking all together?
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: unclephil on May 22, 2009 05:00 AM
hey look at me im paperbat KJADKFSKGJSKDGJSKGJSKDGJSKDGJSALAOWTEGJ9489EFSDJF.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on May 22, 2009 05:29 AM
Quote from: shmeckelbot
Quote from: PaperBatI'm sorry khawner, do you live to make yourself look like a total fool??

lmao you made a new account just for this.

NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL DEDICATION.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: emanhattan on May 22, 2009 06:02 AM
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmonkey-knife-fight.net%2Fimages%2Fdog_fight.jpg&hash=fd4d32d9d46f3014c5d3326329a61628d931d760)
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Wasim on May 22, 2009 01:50 PM
what the...
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on May 22, 2009 02:00 PM
dinky doodle
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: bobtehlog on June 26, 2009 11:40 AM
The best advice anyone can give is learning how to sift good advice from bad advice.

Also, where's the guys bottom? His back leg sorta flails like he's made of rubber.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on July 9, 2009 11:34 PM
Ok, I'm back with a new one. I'm actually pretty pleased with this one, but I feel that it is still lacking something...

http://spamtheweb.com/ul/upload/100709/4909_walking.php (http://spamtheweb.com/ul/upload/100709/4909_walking.php)

As I said before, specificly looking for harsh critisism.

And I would just like to say thank you everyone, for tolerating my not so good flash skills, and for all your help so far.

Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: rtil on July 10, 2009 12:25 AM
i can't imagine how many times i've asked people this, but have you read the animator's survival kit
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Orangebeef on July 10, 2009 12:50 AM
his legs keep changing lengths
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on July 10, 2009 01:08 AM
Quote from: rtili can't imagine how many times i've asked people this, but have you read the animator's survival kit

I was actually planning on reading it, but my uh..."mentor" told me I shouldn't until I find a style. I figured practising with flash would help me a bit, which in this case, was trying to make a walk cycle, but I guess the order of things isn't walk cycle, style, animator's survival kit, but style, animators survival kit, walk cycle.

I pretty much fucked up everything I guess.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: jjjjjjjjjj on July 10, 2009 02:58 AM
you should learn to draw first imo
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on July 10, 2009 03:21 AM
Well, yeah. Now that I have discovered the order of things, that's what I'm going to set out to do first...

Guess I won't be replying here for a while.
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: jjjjjjjjjj on July 10, 2009 04:34 AM
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coverbrowser.com%2Fimage%2Fbestselling-comics-2007%2F219-1.jpg&hash=16a894cef4fcaeea4321823af439523a234ae75f)

Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on July 10, 2009 04:16 PM
Quote from: squfarare you 10 years old because you sure draw like you are

You already know I'm 10, so why do you have to make posts like this?
Title: Flash Animation Improvement
Post by: Khawner_ on July 10, 2009 11:04 PM
Quote from: squfaryour newgrounds profile never lies.

Gahh fuck, you've got me. I'm actually 15.