Now that the discourse is blowing eastward over the anime industry (http://www.animefeminist.com/) (and with recent mixed reactions to those parts of Flip Flappers) I figure we should have this discussion.
I have pretty strong feelings about both it and its criticism but I'd like to hear your thoughts first.
>marxists are now trying to plant their wicked roots into the japanese animation industry and destroy it
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
To the question, I like romantic fanservice, a gentle tease or a sudden handhold gets to me much more effectively than tits and shit
case in point:
(https://puu.sh/rSswO/eb5ecd93d5.jpg)
(https://puu.sh/rSswE/74d8456bb2.jpg)
(https://puu.sh/rSsFh/14b5910445.jpg)
[spoiler]TOO BAD STUFF LIKE THIS DOESN'T ACTUALLY EXIST REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE[/spoiler]
ur ghey
Fanservice doesn't have to follow just one strict definition bamfam
it's twenty-fucking-sixteen
Check your overly bourgeois anime/manga connesieurship
not everyone can afford to get 20 tankobon's of tits and ass in their faces everyday
fanservice
Thanks for the contribution as always Yvonne.
Also yeah Sam can't wait until the anime industry is run by Jews too just like all of American entertainment.
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebackalleys.com%2Fdump%2Ffiles%2F1530%2F200Lk8_%2528%2528%2528KILLABEE%2529%2529%2529.jpg&hash=b56d7faa0bb9d872a1711c724d6bb94b513aace2)
Quote from: SrsSam77 on October 23, 2016 05:17 AM
ur ghey
Fanservice doesn't have to follow just one strict definition bamfam
it's twenty-fucking-sixteen
Check your overly bourgeois anime/manga connesieurship
not everyone can afford to get 20 tankobon's of tits and ass in their faces everyday
Deleted my post but the fanservice in question is that which feminists would label "gratuitous" or "not propelling story or characterization (properly)."
Also you and most of my friends would be surprised how little hentai/porn in general I consume, but again, we aren't talking about porn.
I'm fully against it in that case, not because I care about fanservice fanservice, but because I passionately oppose any attempt to censor something made by someone else because of one's own subjective views.
Yeah it could be toned down, but if it harms literally no one (or even keeps potential harmers at home jerking off), why remove it?
Quote from: SrsSam77 on October 23, 2016 05:33 AM
I'm fully against it in that case, not because I care about fanservice fanservice, but because I passionately oppose any attempt to censor something made by someone else because of one's own subjective views.
Yeah it could be toned down, but if it harms literally no one (or even keeps potential harmers at home jerking off), why remove it?
That's a case for H-Games (hentai games) and their developers as well.
They get banned.
Tumblr-pumblr also deletes/removes life advice from their place. Extorts these bloggers without reason.
Am I your friend now, Bam? PLEASE.
if shelter is "the future of anime" count me out
We can share malt balls (Maltesers) and popcorn when you get here for TIFF.
I have yet to attend.
Don't spit on them. Please.
I need to eat something from the commute.
what is this shelter, I thought it was a song or some sort of ideology
Hmm.
Censors across any platform are gross.
Only the wicked should be.
It's like cellophane tape on door-frames if you don't know what happened to the creators or writers.
We have to walk on eggshells which we shouldn't have to. If you get a decent PR who can write coolly and smoothly (like you lads) and to-the-point to shut them up, please do.
I get angry too.
Quote from: SrsSam77 on October 23, 2016 05:33 AM
I'm fully against it in that case, not because I care about fanservice fanservice, but because I passionately oppose any attempt to censor something made by someone else because of one's own subjective views.
Yeah it could be toned down, but if it harms literally no one (or even keeps potential harmers at home jerking off), why remove it?
We're not discussing the removal but the inclusion. I agree with you in regards to censorship though. This thread was sparked by my skimming these (http://www.themarysue.com/stop-making-excuses-anime-fanservice/) three (http://www.themarysue.com/sexy-vs-sexualized/) articles (http://www.themarysue.com/moe-misogyny-and-masculinity/) by the author of the blog linked above. There's a review with her on a nameless site where she specifies thus:
Quote from: Amelia CookIt's not censorship, because we're not asking animators in Japan to stop making anything. Were not asking people to ban anything. We're not asking for any rules to be put in place. What we'd like to see is more anime being created to give more options to people. You watch Flip Flappers and think it's going to be a sweet, innocent story. In the middle, you get a scene that's quite uncomfortable to watch.
But if you read those articles they're all about "fixing" problems in the industry by way of removing them.
I guess I understand why people didn't like that scene in Flip Flappers but it also serves the narrative by showing the two characters varied reactions to being sexualized (by a robot as proxy for the viewer I guess). Even so I wasn't scandalized or remotely aroused, and the thrusting of young girls into sinister situations has been a staple of faerie tales for ages. Just because Majo no Takkyūbin does it differently doesn't make one method superior to another.
Quote from: Yvonne on October 23, 2016 05:45 AM
That's a case for H-Games (hentai games) and their developers as well.
They get banned.
Tumblr-pumblr also deletes/removes life advice from their place. Extorts these bloggers without reason.
Am I your friend now, Bam? PLEASE.
Uh as long as these are your actual opinions which you aren't yourself censoring to get along with me/due to the gender ratios on this site.
Quote from: rtil on October 23, 2016 05:47 AM
if shelter is "the future of anime" count me out
I know right.
Quote from: SrsSam77 on October 23, 2016 05:55 AM
what is this shelter, I thought it was a song or some sort of ideology
It's a dumb music video by the anime antichrist and EDM's biggest weeb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzQ6gRAEoy0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzQ6gRAEoy0)
Has pretty much no cool montage or Mickey Mousing just like the only other video of his I've seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at3FPJaAwoY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at3FPJaAwoY)
Quote from: Bamyasi on October 19, 2016 08:38 PM
Shut up Yvonne.
Yeah, ladies get censored too.
Tumblr timed-out an honest lady with advice that wasn't even top-tier awful. She was real with people. She logged into her side blog and that was wiped out too.
What.
whatwhat what whatwhat what what what what what
dunna dudunna dudunnadunDA dunna dudunna dudunnadunDA
Shut the fuck up Sam.
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2FrSyJU%2F135e4da6eb.jpg&hash=abc25482582ecd2631e4e936d141d013f3626332)
i just checked out that link in the OP. i mean, there are women in the actual anime industry, but they don't seem to give a single fuck when westerners cry foul about animated sexploitation. i think the only thing that will affect japanese anime from the west is sales numbers from licensed material, in that they are paying attention to our buying habits more than they used to. but generally what does well in japan does well here (bar anything that requires extensive knowledge of japanese culture, in which case it would probably never be licensed to begin with).
at the end of the day sex sells and shit like Keijo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is going to turn heads and get the attention it wants. i think the japanese government is actually a much larger threat to anime than anything else, especially with the olympics looming.
Quote from: rtil on October 23, 2016 07:27 AM
i just checked out that link in the OP. i mean, there are women in the actual anime industry, but they don't seem to give a single fuck when westerners cry foul about animated sexploitation.
That's the silver lining. My biggest concern is that we might see similar attitudes toward censorship we've been seeing in games localization. Not a huge deal for me as I import most of my discs, but I still like supporting western distributors as they're mostly responsible for courting new fans.
I honestly see how needless fanservice might make someone of an outside demographic uncomfortable, but I also find the "sexy vs. sexualized" dichotomy to be oversimplified and pretty disingenuous. There's an element of objectification in every human interaction, especially romantic and sexual ones. Convenient how the two largely exist along eastern vs. western mainstream ideals. There are also plenty of characters who transcend the division (Tsumiki Mikan being a good example).
I was originally resistant to the idea that men are by and large "visually" (I'd expand it to sensually) programmed for mate selection and and reproduction and women are "emotionally" wired for the same thing, thinking that was due to differences in advertising/social imprinting, but the free market doesn't lie. (http://www.crisismagazine.com/2016/romance-porn-women-addicted-think)
If our agenda was actual egalitarianism, the liberation of one sex's sexuality wouldn't necessitate the repression and demonization of the other, and we'd realize both are composed equally of creative and destructive drives. Yeah, like that'll ever happen!
These goddamn Puritans I swear.
Quote from: rtil on October 23, 2016 07:27 AM
i think the japanese government is actually a much larger threat to anime than anything else, especially with the olympics looming.
How do you figure?
Quote from: Bamyasi on October 23, 2016 11:35 PM
I was originally resistant to the idea that men are by and large "visually" (I'd expand it to sensually) programmed for mate selection and and reproduction and women are "emotionally" wired for the same thing, thinking that was due to differences in advertising/social imprinting, but the free market doesn't lie. (http://www.crisismagazine.com/2016/romance-porn-women-addicted-think)
If our agenda was actual egalitarianism, the liberation of one sex's sexuality wouldn't necessitate the repression and demonization of the other, and we'd realize both are composed equally of creative and destructive drives. Yeah, like that'll ever happen!
These goddamn Puritans I swear.
Your link - published both on this and on a Christians of Canada (I assume the author reaps both benefits) site, Puritanical and mindbogglingly dull as it stands.
Here (https://aeon.co/essays/does-too-much-pornography-numb-us-to-sexual-pleasure) - to compensate for your 'free market' tagline and it's published a month and day, a year before. Does that make sense? As I have skimmed over the top of yours, skim read this one as well if you would do so please.
As you have stated, if there was a way to change the government's position on remedial adolescent-to-adult education, I'd start soon.
Great points. I'm not saying you're wrong. It's amusing to me that you - what?
Import most on your discs - like, backlogs on external hard drive discs? You said you don't consume as much.
If it's to study and help western distributions - great. I would appreciate that, personally.
Quote from: Bamyasi on October 23, 2016 11:35 PM
Quote from: rtil on October 23, 2016 07:27 AM
i think the japanese government is actually a much larger threat to anime than anything else, especially with the olympics looming.
How do you figure?
How I interpret this is that I wouldn't want a John Cena reincarnate where there are homemade posters on arena stands of anime drawings and such televised.
Quote from: Bamyasi on October 23, 2016 11:35 PM
Quote from: rtil on October 23, 2016 07:27 AM
i think the japanese government is actually a much larger threat to anime than anything else, especially with the olympics looming.
How do you figure?
a friend of mine who is native japanese and tables at comiket says that many of his fellow artists in doujin circles are concerned about the japanese government being overly zealous about their international image. summer comiket overlaps with the 2020 olympics, and it's already damaging enough that comiket's venue (tokyo big sight) is being overrun by the olympics - but to make matters worse, the japanese government is considering harsher censorship laws to try and suppress adult doujin being seen by foreigners.
Well gee why don't they just
take Comiket and
push it somewhere else.
That would seriously suck if Japan suddenly saw a bunch of obscenity cases, but hey that's Globalism for ya. Chalk one up for Feminism.
Quote from: Yvonne on October 24, 2016 01:07 AM
Does that make sense?
Not really. I wasn't talking about porn you can watch. I meant the literary variety. Probably should have quoted this part of the article:
Quote from: Christians of CanadaBut according to Laurie Kahn, producer of the documentary film Love Between the Covers: "More than 70 million people in the USA alone read at least one romance novel per year, and most of them read many more."
The US Census for 2015 shows there are 100 million women between 18 and 64 years old living in the United States. If Kahn's number is correct, and assuming that the majority of those "70 million people" are women, then up to 70 percent of American women are covertly consuming literary pornography.
Of course it's conjecture because Boomers wouldn't self-report about this kind of thing, but it's hard to argue there's not a massive undersampling in regards to erotica. I wasn't making a philosophical argument about the positive or negative value of porn consumption, but a rhetorical one about the different ways men and women (generally) consume it. Probably the only reasons there isn't an analogous movement to lower the average male character's net income in romance novels are a) because men don't read (romance novels), and b) complaining about it would further lower (male) complainer's SMV (as being a dumb MRA betaboy is wont to do).
Also wasn't talking about the government but the (collective) western Feminist movement and how they are sex-positive with regards to (lol) "non-destructive" female sexuality and male androphilia but very negative in regards to traditionally "male" "destructive"
gynephilic sexuality.
Basically my point is that third-wave feminism tends to conflate both sex's sexuality in relation to how we experience them (watering everything down to Twitter-friendly language), but at the same time evaluate them very differently depending on who is the subject/object of attraction (masculinity being toxic, women being damsels in distress). What I'm arguing is that male and female sexuality are, broadly speaking,
very different, but are each of neutral value.
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they are moving comiket to a smaller venue for 2020. i'm sure it will be hell on earth, as if it wasn't already
I meant like out of the capital. To Yokohama or something.
well it is for 2020, but tokyo big sight is the only place big enough to even contain comiket, and even then it's already overcrowded. attendance is over half a million
Well they're building an Olympic stadium in Tokyo for the big dumb Globalist fuckery I'm sure the Japanese government could afford to build a pop-up venue outside the city somewhere. I guess that itself might also draw national attention though.
Fucking have the Olympics in Zika-ridden Brazil where the government is as about as clean as the water and everyone has to just accept "it's the kooky second world lol" but suddenly artistic representations of people under U.S. and European age of consent laws and there's fear the entire hemisphere will go bananas.
Go figure.
this is why i hate the olympics. i feel bad for the japanese people