So this is a manga drawn by me written with input from my friends.
This is a rough draft (
like, sandpaper-toilet-paper rough), so I've still got to clean up a bit.
It's called The Ampersand Project for two reasons:
- In story, people are usually paired up as partners
- This is the first story I did where plot elements, characters, etc., are based on ideas from my friends.
Sorry for the text, my handwriting kinda sucks.
If anyone has questions about this, I'd be happy to answer!
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2Famp.jpg&hash=258202bdb04cafcd74d5a1517ef18f44e80546bd)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F1.png&hash=5dae17e1ab96fbf10a96c749bae311b738c816d8)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F2.png&hash=cd5c709c6f1be1bd6682e309acf4ebc7fb60bc82)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F3.png&hash=adb7136787b47307571b939cfefbceedb635099b)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F4.png&hash=3394113cf39883d36ba47be92a08bb1b673e4b3c)
boring
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F5.png&hash=f6e1532b123de900231246ff20fb49d38102ac2f)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F6.png&hash=be99b82f29257137a6bb46419f64bf86db839a00)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F7.png&hash=88587e7da4ec4e192296237a0232455d732520c4)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F8.png&hash=ba7e083e095dfaf1194be7b6b36bde0d6dae818f)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2F9.png&hash=4cf255ee7bca1c2cfa74e8bddbc9ccf4039014dc)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2Ften.png&hash=da3de7b30eb834f15cc0112e90477643f7aa8b76)
aside from the generic character design and the generic humour this is pretty
generic
that being said, i'm still reading it, so keep it up
i'm seeing a lot of soul eater influence in this, which is fine, but try not to be too close to it.
you have a very tried and true set-up - straight man meets foil, buddy-cop type scenario. doing something refreshing with it will be the difficult part.
not sure i agree with the right-to-left reading since it is in english, but i get why you did it.
i would work harder on line fidelity, you're doing a lot of scratchy and fuzzy lines and it takes away from the form of your drawings. anatomically speaking you need a lot of practice, too. drawing the human form as much as you are helps, but make sure you are studying anatomy at the same time as well, and master each part of the body and how it connects.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm still open to suggestions for story and stuff, so if you guys have any ideas, I'd be happy to know! :D
Made a group pic of the bad guys
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2Fevil2.png&hash=913f350141cb3befcb005d6a2cb502d430877afb)
I like your backgrounds, they're very Kubo-esque
Iris has a cool design, I like his design. I'd perhaps add an eyelid, it looks a little barren up top
Wow this is just....
Theres so many things.
I'm gonna give you a fun fact right now:
a) the skull and head of an anime character is actually very similar to an actual real person's skull / head with a few key things exaggerated
b) anime heads should not be an upside-down cone with a nose, hair, and eyes applied sketchily onto it
c) you don't understand basic forms. Your character's torsos are rounded rectangles. Your characters arms are noodles that bend (yet you try to draw elbow details for some reason). Your characters heads are triangles/cones.
Get these:
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.inkfrog.com%2Fpix%2Flakecountrycollector%2Fanatomy-for-artists142.jpg&hash=b8d919d01250780b38653df994bde5f866422a24)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artistdaily.com%2Fcfs-filesystemfile.ashx%2F__key%2FCommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles%2Fdrawing%2FDR-Blog002.jpg&hash=3e9b18ceb2df3d17ce6337017eb8733d97327859)
Or if you don't feel like that, go outside and sketch real people. Real things. Once you understand how a body works, you'll understand how cartoons and anime exaggerate particular qualities of the form to create recognizable designs. Anime isn't just BIG KAWAII EYES TINY MOUTH TRIANGLE NOSE. There's alot of scientific shit behind it and every time I see someone try to imitate an art style without actually knowing how to draw it always looks like your art.
And don't try to claim it's "your style" thats a bullshit thing to say and only people full of bullshit say shit like that. Are you full of bullshit? No. Learn anatomy. Every good artist, cartoonist, animator, even hentai artist understands anatomy first before trying to stylize the human body. It doesn't matter how famous they are. Every good anime director from Osamu Tezuka to Shinichiro Watanabe understood form and function of the human body before trying to find ways of finding ways to stylize it. Every artist learns by copying.
Go outside. Copy everything you see. Draw everything you see. Copy other artists. Try to understand WHAT makes their art tick. Try to understand WHY they do certain things. Why they make their lines do this or that. Once you make that connection, congrats. You understand 3D forms being drawn in a 2D plane and your art will improve a bazillion times. This is what anatomy teaches you. This is what drawing from real life teaches you. Depth.
Until you do that your art is always going to look like:
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc01.deviantart.net%2Ffs38%2Ff%2F2008%2F358%2F3%2Fe%2FMy_First_Anime_Drawing_by_Heir_of_Phoenixa.jpg&hash=56d6dde643b06f14358b3b6f3f5bcf98c97d7810)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JFxmvDC6rso%2FTFFVt4_V6eI%2FAAAAAAAAAC8%2FEmOKYQPiAss%2Fs1600%2FIMGP9219.JPG&hash=143d03d29e7ee514481ba1b660feeab5392bf4f2)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F_c0XuXtxSbA%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&hash=810f419f6388b4091169a814653f9bb1f4dbb519)
And while I'm trying really hard not to be rude right now but jesus fuck your monster designs are generic. Well all your designs are generic but your monsters are shamelessly so.
They look exactly like the HEARTLESS from Kingdom Hearts mixed a bit with the "BOMB" enemies from every Final Fantasy Game ever. Fun Fact: Almost everyone at SQUARE-ENIX are hacks and if you are trying to learn to draw cool creatures, do not take inspiration from them. That is not the path you want to go down.
You're welcome.
What would you guys suggest I do about that?
I really want to make this a good manga.
Taking Zekey's advice, I would just focus on doing some anatomy studies on the side, maybe try to adapt them to your characters a bit. While he has a point, I think he's asking a bit too much.
As far as designs go, I would just try out a bunch of different concepts, mix and match, etc.
Reread my post.
What you need to do is there.
You gotta go back to the basics and learn to draw.
Quote from: AnxiousAlien on February 18, 2014 04:53 AM
I really want to make this a good manga.
has it gotta be a manga theres an awful lot of that about already
also one thing i guess you could consider is "why should the viewer care for your comic"
the guy was stand offish and kind of a dick, so i didnt like him.
the girl was annoying and zany, so i didnt like her.
you have to consider what exactly you are offering to the viewer to keep reading. a thrilling story laced with twists and turns? an awesome visual style to keep them entertained? a moral or a story that maybe makes them think about or look at something in a different way?
what are the characters doing. saving the world? okay cool, but if i dont care anything for them or the world they live in, why should i keep reading?
I see your point; I'll work on character development.
Thanks for the advice, guys! :D
Quote from: AnxiousAlien on February 18, 2014 01:07 PM
I see your point; I'll work on character development.
Thanks for the advice, guys! :D
you get my respect for listening to critique. bravo.
So I did a few sketches to try and improve my anatomy (please disregard the one on the far left.)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2FPortfolio%2Fano.png&hash=bfbf45dbb23158e1f60ade1312bc8ec0f6962cf4)
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2Fhan.png&hash=d4c6ec878522d3d2f758909f666441a5ee6cdd56)
I also made a concept for a new monster design.
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FZaxia%2Fmanga%2FAmp%2Fmon.png&hash=96953d6fe99ede209a645584ec44a99cb1136892)
I'd love some feedback, guys! :D
what are you using to study anatomy at the moment?
More or less looking at people and looking up pictures on the internet.
so what you're saying is, YOU'RE JERKING OFF TO GAY PORNO YOU FAGGIT WTF
anyway unless you're a native japanese with their shitty culture coming our your asshole you shouldn't draw a 'manga'
and like zekey said, you clearly don't understand why they do the things you want to do
characters in anime and manga are generally fucking shit and bland as fuck, do you know why?
because they don't do traditional character development, they use shitty stubborn characters as part of a story element in some way
the difference is some of them tell good stories, and others don't, the ones that can't tell a good story end up being fucking shit because the characters are dumb too
your anatomy sketches are still wonky, but still a massive improvement, they look more like you actually gave a shit about what you were doing
if you can't make your comics look like you give a shit and fill them with half-assed knock-off characters you can't expect anyone else to take it seriously either
that's a dangerous path to ruin, when you can't make your shit distinct or good enough to stand out, and don't understand your source material either
also, never cut off the iris or pupil when drawing eyes, this is another common mistake done by Amateur Anime Artists because they have no fucking idea what they are doing
keep in mind the style you're attempting to emulate is derived from the old disney cartoons, with an irradiated hiroshima twist to it
i highly recommend you study that as well to get a better understanding of why they've stylized certain things, ie things like the typically enlarged manga eyes stem both from large and expressive cartoon eyes and also supposedly some kind of asian inferiority complex (unless they're chinese but fuck china)
WHY DO YOU THINK BROCK IS THE ONLY ASIAN IN POKEMON, AND WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S A PERVERTED ASSHOLE? IT'S BECAUSE HE REPRESENTS JAPANESE SELF-LOATHING
i'm just bullshitting by this point but you get the idea, you CAN do better as seen in your new sketches if you just gain an understanding of what you're trying to do instead of just mimicking what you've seen
some of the critique in this thread is useful, but a few things i want to add though:
a sequential juxtapose of images used to tell a story is a "comic". the japanese word for this is "manga". the korean word for this is "manhwa". there are many other terms for this, but in the west, it is wholly a "comic". culturally, there is a difference, much like the difference between the american "cartoon" and the japanese "anime". if you make a comic and you live in the west, it's better to call it a comic, or else you will probably rub people the wrong way.
people in this thread are telling you to study some anatomy likely because they believe that's the most glancing thing that lacks in your work, and they're generally right, but i believe you're a little too early to go straight into anatomy. in my opinion, you should understand the basic forms and how to use them, and build forms made out of the cube, sphere, and cylinder. a really good resource i'd recommend starting with is this torrent: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7409774/Vilppu_Studio._(Anatomy__Drawing_Manual__Head_Anatomy_and_Constr (http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7409774/Vilppu_Studio._(Anatomy__Drawing_Manual__Head_Anatomy_and_Constr)
even just downloading the pdf's from this will give you some basic exercises to practice to dramatically improve your art. i personally like this training resource, because it teaches the forms while applying it directly to figure drawing, which helps ease the monotony of getting the basics down using some direct application to what you want to be drawing. the exercises in the drawing manual pdf are to be used independently and with the aid of a model or other pose reference. a good resource for this can be found here: http://artists.pixelovely.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/ (http://artists.pixelovely.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/) — otherwise, there are plenty of videos in this torrent on anatomy and proportions. definitely start with the pdf file and go from there. you might also benefit from videos by Proko (https://www.youtube.com/user/ProkoTV?feature=watch), which interpret some of the concepts Vilppu goes over.
the advice a lot of people give to young artists who draw the way you do is "don't copy anime, anime will make you a bad artist". i don't think any art style will make you a bad artist by default, and that you should draw the things you like. however, it is important to have a foundation and understanding of why something works before trying to make it work yourself. if you want to draw like the anime/manga artists you look up to, use their styles as a supplement — draw things from life and from observation and then analyze how the artists you like handle those things, be it their simplification of anatomy, their poses, their expressions, their line quality, the way they handle volumes, whatever you want. but figure out how it works in life first, since all things are derived from the real world.
at this point in an artist's development, the best advice is to just draw a lot of everything that appeals to you — most people in your position keep doing that and eventually realize there's something wrong with their work, usually through critique from other people or naturally through the progression of personal taste and comparison to other artists. it might feel overwhelming, but the feedback you're getting from people here, though it may vary from person to person, is generally a clear indicator of how your art is received by your audience. so consider how other people perceive your art, consider how you perceive your art, and draw what will ultimately allow you to achieve your goals.
I like how Sinister's post starts out restating Zekey's anatomical complaints but then goes on a rant about anime plotlines.
Classic Sinister.
Quote from: Sinitron on February 24, 2014 07:21 AM
so what you're saying is, YOU'RE JERKING OFF TO GAY PORNO YOU FAGGIT WTF
HOW DO YOU KNOW?
ಠ_ಠ
ಠ_ಠ
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ಠ
Just kidding.
If you guys don't mind me stopping this, I had a few other things going you guys may like better:
Spark:
It's another manga, but a fair bit more serious.
It's on a planet parallel to Earth (in a way revealed later along), and the use of magic is common, only few can use elemental magic, including a pyrokinetic child who became a pariah after burning down a village and a runaway princess who acts more like a bezerker.
Bob:
A comic; a little kid wanted more than anything to become a superhero, and did (without the powers, of course). As an adult, he achieved renown and praise as a superhero. A bitter jealous tycoon framed him for a major crime, and convinced the world to shun him, leading to him becoming like the criminals he used to foil. An old friend is able to convince him to become a bounty hunter as a way to get money, and a subsequent chain of events lead him to face the very man who made the world cast him aside.
ReBoot (not related to the show):
A comic about a trio of friends who form a band and get into weird situations. It's not very serious most of the time, and doesn't really adhere to a big storyline.
And then there's this brand new thing I just started on that I'm still fleshing out.
Spark sounds like Dorohedoro meets Avatar: The Last Airbender
but yeh I like the Bob story a lot that ones quite interesting actually
i think your art is more important than a story atm. but ultimately it is up to you
The fact you have three different ideas "going" already, and are just ready to drop this one at a moment's notice makes me seriously question your staying-power. It seems like you're far too flighty with concepts. Find something and stick to it, no one likes an unfinished storyline
Quote from: Sheepy on March 22, 2014 04:26 AM
The only reason why it works like that in Japan is due to Japanese being a "backwards" language
There goes Sheepy being racist again.
So what you're saying is...
I should write it in Japanese?
I see your point; I've just been doing it out of habit, but, yeah, I'll do it the other way.
writing it in japanese isn't enough. you must become japanese.