so it looks like studio ghibli made another movie...
The Wind Rises - Official Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlaW8-2T1HI#ws)
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movies/the-wind-rises-trailer-miyazakis-farewell-film-coming-to-u-s/#/0 (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movies/the-wind-rises-trailer-miyazakis-farewell-film-coming-to-u-s/#/0)
to my surprise, this is actually going to be in theaters this month for a very short amount of time, but i find that still pretty extraordinary considering there hasn't been any kind of 2D animated film (let alone an anime) in theaters for god knows how long.
i know i'll be watching this!
I saw it a few weeks back.
It was pretty good.
i'll be waiting for an opportunity to see it in theaters, be it subbed or dubbed. i really don't want to spoil the first time theater experience.
Yeah I just had access to the academy DVD screener, definitely go for the theatre if you can.
i also have my doubts that this is his last film.. at the very least i think he will serve some major role on another ghibli film or two, if not director then something similar to it.
i got to see this today at a theater only a few blocks away from me, which is really lucky because it's only playing in a few so far, and i also got to see it subbed.
it has touches of miyazaki's whimsical nature, especially in sound, but it's mostly a very serious and somber film. it's also pretty heartbreaking, but any film about a pre-WWII japan is usually doomed to end up that way.
if it is miyazaki's last director role, it's a great sendoff. i don't think it's his best film, but it is easily one of the best animated films ever made. it has a deep tone that you will never ever get from a western animated production, which is just sad. i hope it does well in its theatrical run, although disney has to market it in an intelligent way - this is not a film for a typical american child that is spoonfed hyperactive toilet humor talking animal movies, it will bore them because they don't go to movies to think.
there is a lot of animation geared towards adults but only in humor.. i would be curious to see if they are open to seeing a biopic. part of me says that most people will not take it seriously because it is animated, but i'd like to imagine that isn't as true as i think.
anyway, you should go see it in the theaters when you can. the animation is brilliant and you don't want to miss an opportunity to see it on a big screen.
yea im still waiting for it to open up at the theater near me..
the thing that always gets to me was what made disney decide to close down their 2D department to make way for more 3D films. i don't mind them, in fact i enjoyed a couple that came out recently such as wreckit ralph and monster's university. but yea, to think that there will most likely never be another 2D film in theaters is haunting. like i just missed an entire era. was it too much to ask for both?
there are many different reasons why 2D film died in the united states, and none of them are good. and it's in no position to ever recover because of how difficult it is to establish a studio in this country with zero help from a government that cares little about the arts, and the animation powerhouses in this country are not interested in it. but they probably will be one day when all the masters of 2D animation start to die off and the younger generation has little to no traditional roots. but the thing about Disney and Pixar is that, for the most part, their 3D films have pretty strong 2D roots, in concept and execution. they even still do some 2D animation to stage scenes, but of course it never goes to screen. and all good scenes start with a good drawing. the 3D environment is just too cold and mechanical to ever have the same feeling as a drawing.
but audiences still flock to 3d features, and the hiking of ticket sales for things like imax and RD3D are too good to pass up from a business perspective. so until audiences stop eating the same regurgitated slop, they won't stop making them. but for a moviegoing audience that enjoys the lowest forms of entertainment, i doubt that will ever happen. look at a studio like LAIKA that prides themselves on their stop motion and strong characters, they barely scrape by. pandering to the formula is the way to go unfortunately.
Can someone explain to me why they liked Wreck-It Ralph. I thought it fell prey to most of the same problems plaguing modern children's films, and then some. I could easily be swayed, though.
Also, GKIDS (http://www.gkids.tv/films/) distributes a decent (for 201X) amount of international 2D animated films (though their anime catalog is admittedly slim, thankfully our local university theater gets a few every year), and most of them end up showing at the cinema where I used to work. We were also lucky enough to get the Ghibli Collection (http://www.gkids.tv/ghibli/) last year on three separate occasions. It was neat seeing all the films subbed on 35mm prints, even though I had to watch each of them three or four times (and sometimes up to 7). I know a few of them pretty much by heart (whispers of the heart).
still though.... i have this grudge in the back of my head hoping that 2D stuff will somehow make a comeback.
Quote from: Bamyasi on February 25, 2014 05:09 AM
Can someone explain to me why they liked Wreck-It Ralph. I thought it fell prey to most of the same problems plaguing modern children's films, and then some. I could easily be swayed, though.
it was far from perfect, but i think it did the unlikely hero story pretty well. i'm not going to try and change your mind about it because i don't care that you didn't like it, but i thought it was a better film than Brave, which won the AA that year for best animated picture.
I didn't see Brave but I don't find that hard to believe. I guess Wreck-It Ralph wasn't
that bad, but also can't really compare to Rango as far as unlikely hero stories go. That said, Rango wasn't really a great children's movie either, but just a great movie in general.
[spoiler=Rant]It's sad that companies like Dreamworks and Pixar (and slew of imitators) feel like they have to pander to adult and children sensibilities simultaneously (Rango is guilty of this, but also Pixar movies where the narratives deal with "adult" concepts in subtle/metaphorical ways, and Dreamworks where it's less subtle (though I guess HTTYD and ROTG weren't terrible in this respect), because the best children's movies are so great because they can appeal to older audiences purely by virtue of being great children's movies. Ghibli films are a great example, but also most pre-2000's Disney (except The Lion King. Fuck The Lion King). It would be nice if we could return to the purer times, because I find the current trend in children's movies to be incredibly patronizing, to adults but especially to children .[/spoiler]
tl;dr: I would have picked The Pirates! to win that year, even though it wasn't that great and the Academy sucks eggs.
Quote from: Stu4U on February 25, 2014 05:14 AM
still though.... i have this grudge in the back of my head hoping that 2D stuff will somehow make a comeback.
At least we still have Japan.
i agree that Rango was a better movie than Wreck-it Ralph but i never thought of comparing the two. i would recommend them both for different reasons.
as for countries with a 2D presence in film, Europe is still a good place for it, but i don't think anyone comes close to the output of Japan. for how long that will last i don't know, but if Japan wants to keep it up in the long run they either need to start making babies or be more open to immigration.
Quote from: rtil on February 25, 2014 06:03 AM
be more open to immigration.
Not if this hansom motherfucker has anything to say about it.
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebackalleys.com%2Fdump%2Ffiles%2F1530%2F0930oW_Mishima.jpg&hash=72e9e269d941c8019d31bbd12aa937849a365d51)
(Except he can't because he's fucking dead.)
But in all serious I'm not sure how to feel about gaijin animating my precious Chinese cartoons (because I'm racist but also because the majority of anime inspired Western cartoons have sucked terribly). It would be better if the States could just get a working animation industry. Right now the only possibility seems to be making a gorillion dollars in our corrupt as fuck tech industry and then bankrolling the fuckers yourself. But yeah I don't want to sound insensitive because I'm sure this is something trad-animators hemorrhage over daily.
Which leads me to wonder why 3D has been such a failure in American syndicated cartoons. And also why movies like Gravity (sucks) aren't considered animated when pretty much everything but the actors' faces was shot on greenscreen.
But yeah The Wind Rises. I've been waiting for this to come out fivever. It's taken a lot of effort to keep from queing up the .mkv in MPC and watching it on my dumb monitor.
Also,
Quote from: rtil on February 25, 2014 05:22 AM
i'm not going to try and change your mind
I would change my mind for you rtil (mwah), so feel free to twist my wrist when I get out of line.
2d4life
nevr giv up on ur draems :^)
visual fx is a different department from animation for a reason. it's typically a lot more technical and involves more an understanding of physics and simulation than it does the principles of animation. a lot of people who work in vfx are not "artists" in the sense that an animator would be.
gaijin are already working on anime to a certain extent - some japanese studios are already starting to take advantage of digital outsourcing by contracting animators online outside of japan. just a few months ago i applied for one Masaaki Yuasa posted on twitter.
That's true, but then again most Western videogame companies these days stress hyperrealism just as much as any Hollywood VFX department, and a good percent of people working on Call of Duty or GTA probably consider themselves "artists" (just not the ones working underpayed hours somewhere in China designing car keys or whatever. There's is a thankless, unglamorous job).
Yeah I mean most in-between sakuga is done in Korea anyway if I remember correctly. I could just see it becoming a problem if American weebs start taking executive positions and effecting the industry's cultural output. I think it's important for a nation's artistic exports to express cultural values, aesthetics, etc. specific to that nation because I'm a vicious ideologue. Unless it's a place like America where the culture is already built upon immigration and any non-individualist work can only express multicultural values anyway (see: Avatar: The Last Airbender, Avatar: The Legend of Korra, James Cameron's Avatar).
Regardless, best of luck getting that contracting job with Yuasa. I would be ecstatic to know the internet persona of someone who'd worked with him.
i didn't get it, i applied to it too late and the position was already filled. i don't think i'm good enough either way, but if i ever see another one i'll apply again anyway.
hyperrealism in games and animation is something that happens, but you still have the two sides of it. there's a vfx department and an animation department, the two rarely intersect. if you specialize in vfx you probably won't be painting textures, making storyboards or animating character rigs.
also, hyperrealism is extremely expensive and often defeats the purpose of making a film animated, and you get the uncanny valley issue a lot and the whole thing just comes out looking creepy (see: Mars Needs Moms). for games, well, it depends on what kind of immersion you're trying to achieve.
i don't think americans will ever be taking on any larger role than an animator in a japanese studio, it would be a leap for american animators to even be accepted as nothing more than glorified grunt workers. there's just not enough talent here and those who want to pursue animation have very few places to go. where even as early as 20 years ago you could do an apprenticeship under a master 2d animator in this country, now the only opportunity similar to that is having an animation professor at one of the few remaining schools that teach 2d animation as a core class.
Ah, well that sucks. Best of luck on your next attempt, then.
That dichotomy makes sense, thanks for setting me straight. I was just conflating the two departments into "people who make me see things that aren't real," so it's good to have a less abstract understanding.
And now you're making me depressed about the state of 2D. I couldn't just live in my world of denial. Fuck.
well i think 2d animation is still alive and well in the games industry, and there is some interest for it in tv although most of it is outsourced. it will never completely die so long as it is passed on and people keep creating great things with it. the #1 problem is the widespread belief that animation is for children, or that it shouldn't be taken seriously (hence why almost all "adult" animation in the states is in the form of comedy). if that could be quelled then i think the market would burst open very quickly.
Quote from: rtil on February 25, 2014 08:51 AM
the #1 problem is the widespread belief that animation is for children, or that it shouldn't be taken seriously (hence why almost all "adult" animation in the states is in the form of comedy). if that could be quelled then i think the market would burst open very quickly.
So you're saying there needs to be some kind of mass re-education à la:
(https://thebackalleys.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebackalleys.com%2Fdump%2Ffiles%2F1530%2F688vO_anime_reeducation.jpg&hash=208f307ef4d3224f0d6ac929d7d96146483f8dc8)?
Also I remembered why I was conflating the departments originally. I was talking to some people in the film industry (aka my dad) and they were all criticizing the academy for giving the Best Cinematography award to movies like Avatar and Life of Pie. Following that trend, Gravity would win this year. The problem is that both The Grandmaster and Inside Llewyn Davis have the best cinematography from a traditional standpoint, whereas Gravity has the best as far as technological innovation goes. I think someone jokingly said that movies like Life of Pie should be considered animated, or else have their own category besides Best VFX, and so that's where my logic's coming from. Also I'm a dumbass.
I don't know. It's weird when people like Stan "the Man" Kubrick used rear projection and
cutting edge special effects in movies like Eyes Wide Shut and 2001, yet those films still look amazing today (for the most part). I guess I just defy the industry's current use of this technology. Think of all the untreaded creative ground film has yet to creatively tread, all the creative virgins it has yet to creatively deflower. Think of how easy deflowering those virgins would be if Hollywood's primary focus wasn't pouring money into making more and more realistic fuck-ugly monsters and mouth-breathingly retarded disaster movies.
well the academy is full of dumbfucks anyway, it's no surprise they can't differentiate between cinematography and vfx. if they want to add another category they could add best digital cinematography but that is just splitting hairs. i think it should not be awarded to those kinds of films because the framing devices in greenscreen are completely fabricated, they can be planned and staged and nothing needs to be done on location. in that sense , it is "easier" to achieve good cinematography, whereas in traditional filmmaking, framing devices have to be found or created from scratch in a brick and mortar fashion.
but i don't expect the academy to ever understand the difference or pretend that they care, everyone knows it's pretty much a circlejerk at this point. the only major award ceremony i think is worth its salt is the Annies.
That's exactly how my father put it, and he's in the academy.
And yeah that's I think the only place VFX and animation are comparable, in not relying so much on location or set design. One is obviously far more pure in that respect though.
fucking hollywood
[spoilerimg]http://www.thebackalleys.com/dump/files/2716/1180yT_jew.gif[/spoilerimg]
Hikoukigumo - Kaze Tachinu OST (Vietsub) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAF1vph4ekA#ws)
This film is playing here in San Francisco already so I plan to see it this Sunday.
I'm reading all of this talk about 2D animation and thinking to myself "Here I could be studying hard, gathering contacts and preparing to usher in a glorious renaissance of 2D animation by starting my own studio, but instead I'm sitting at home masturbating"
I would like to believe that 2D will definitely make a come back. It might just be because I gravitate to like-minded individuals, but 90% of the people in my social circles have no problem with the idea of animated films aimed at adults. Look at the way "nerd" culture has progressed in the last 15 years, with movies like The Dark Knight and Iron Man being incredibly successful franchises based on comic books. Today's adults are heavily nostalgic for the cartoons and comics they grew up on, and while I don't think the majority of them have the attention-span for a complex, deep narrative in a cartoon, I doubt such cartoons would have trouble finding a market to survive on. IIRC Avatar: The Last Airbender was one of the most successful cartoons the previous decade, and also one of the most complex. It attracted fans much older than the intended audience, fans that are now likely in their mid-20's. American culture is shifting as the older conservative population is dying off, and as these 20-something cartoon fans come to take their place in society's positions of power, someone somewhere is going to say "Hey, I missed the 2D animated films of the late 20th century, and I'm sure plenty of other people do, so why can't we bring some of them back?" and then fund one.
I doubt it would even take a large company to do it. Someone's going to throw something on Kickstarter or Indiegogo, crowd-source the funding, and get a hit, and suddenly everyone's going to want to copy their success.
I'll be seeing The Wind Rises Tomorrow. I was pretty disappointed by Arietty, but this is a totally different kind of movie, so I'm excited.
Just got back from this. There was a pretty decent turnout for a ten o'clock show, but I guess it was opening night here. The crowd was all young people, and even so there were a lot of really funny lines that absolutely no one laughed at ("The garden would be faster"), which is unusual for theatrical Ghibli releases, as they're usually hilarious in a relaxing and understated way (the highest form of comedy if you ask me).
I will need more time to "digest" it, but I will say this was my favorite film he's done since Mononoke-hime, maybe even Porco Rosso or Kiki's Delivery Service. A lot of critics seem to be complaining that there wasn't enough "drama," maybe because they've never seen a Japanese (or non-Hollywood) movie before. In fact, the absence of drama was one of the things I liked most about it. If a director (or writer) can engage me without needless conflict or overcooked characters, I find it more impressive than the more common alternative (if my bitch-tears are any indication). The main character's apparent detachment toward everything around him (including spoiler) I found deeply affecting. I was also deeply impressed/depressed by Miyazaki's willingness to let one of the characters [spoiler]die.[/spoiler] Also I'm having lots of déjà vu about this movie which either means that it made ripples in my past or I'm becoming schizophrenic.
And anyone judging this film on a political scale can suck an egg.
there were a couple ghibli firsts in this movie, including what you mentioned, as well as the kiss.
I saw it yesterday with some friends. The theatre was mostly empty, older fans in their 30s who I'm guessing had seen Mononoke as teenagers. I really enjoyed this film, and it still amazes me that Miyazaki can do a WWII era movie and have it whimsical and respectful at the same time.
[spoiler]It hit me pretty hard when she left for the sanitorium the 2nd time "so that he remembers her as she is", since I watched my aunt slowly die after an aneurysm-induced coma and my grandmother die of alzheimer's/stroke immediately after. I didn't openly weep like with the climax of Paranorman but it did tear me up[/spoiler]
My friends liked it too, said they've never seen an anime film with this kind of serious tone, so I'm thinking I'll make them watch Grave of the Fireflies next.
Quote from: Bamyasi on March 1, 2014 06:29 AM
A lot of critics seem to be complaining that there wasn't enough "drama," maybe because they've never seen a Japanese (or non-Hollywood) movie before
I don't know what they're defining drama as. It felt pretty dramatic to me. Arietty in comparison nearly bored me to sleep because barely anything happened in that film.
god, GotF is a constant downward spiral into depression and hell. a great film, but it just leaves this sinking feeling in your gut. anyway, glad you got to see it.
the movie opened in ~450 theaters nationwide yesterday, up from 21. it made $460,000 on friday, a 463.5% jump from last week. pretty respectable although per theater it's nothing special.
i don't think disney did a very good job advertising the film, although i think it would be very difficult to get an average moviegoer to go see it. finding the right 'target' would be pretty difficult in this country. and it's not a "kids" movie.
here's hoping the academy has some small sliver of a soul left and gives the oscar to The Wind Rises instead of Frozen.. but i'm not counting on it.
I thought this would be a shoe-in for the BAF category. It's also better than any of the BP nominees (but that's an understatement). Go figure they'd nominate something like Up but not this.
Quote from: Gilthwixt on March 1, 2014 08:36 PM
climax of Paranorman
Only redeeming part of that movie plot-wise, if you ask me.
Quote from: Gilthwixt on March 1, 2014 08:36 PM
I don't know what they're defining drama as.
Probably as conflict of interest between characters and whatnot.
Quote from: Gilthwixt on March 1, 2014 08:36 PM
Arietty in comparison nearly bored me to sleep because barely anything happened in that film.
Did you see From Up on Poppy Hill? It seems about half of their movies have a more relaxed tone, and the others are more action oriented.
Also probably seeing this again tonight with my girlfriends.
i liked Arietty, it was charming and i found it really relaxing to watch. and of course it was a beautiful movie, one that has to be seen in theaters not only for the art but for the brilliant sound design. i try not to compare ghibli films because they are all so different from eachother, still Arietty is nowhere near the best ghibli film but it has a lot of elements to it that most animation feature directors could learn a lot from.
i hope you guys have seen persepolis, it was a pretty cool movie
yeah.. what does that have to do with the wind rises?
not much actually
alright