starcraft 2

[rtil]

Watched the replay

dont think I would be patient enough for a game like that

i almost quit twice, mostly around the time when i was long distance mining, i was almost sure i was going to lose. i also had to leave my apartment like exactly the moment i won the game. so i was glad it was finally over


btw, did you get a friend request from me in the game? i forget if i added you or not

That creep spread did wonders denying possible expansions and forcing some scans.

yeah i noticed after watching the replay he spent a lot of energy on scans instead of mules. probably ended up benefiting me a lot more than him.

[cipher]

BEHOLD! MY PLACEMENT MATCH

http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/29-07-11/1...r.html?justUp=1

[Crabarms]

haha epic micro there Cipher. His 7 drones did not know how to deal with that one drone then he takes all his frustration on the rocks.

[Sinitron]

That creep spread did wonders denying possible expansions and forcing some scans.

how 2 be PRO zerg, the sinitron way:

- research overlord speed and transport ability
- load up queen
- unload queen at expo
- crap creep with overlord
- place creep tumor(s)
- load that bitch up and move on to another expo

copyright sinitron 2010 don't steal

[psi43]

That creep spread did wonders denying possible expansions and forcing some scans.

how 2 be PRO zerg, the sinitron way:

- research overlord speed and transport ability
- load up queen
- unload queen at expo
- crap creep with overlord
- place creep tumor(s)
- load that bitch up and move on to another expo

copyright sinitron 2010 don't steal

i told poogs the exact same strategy like 3 days ago lmfao

[Crabarms]

Been having some problems with mech builds lately. I got off easy on this one because I sniped two armories and I guess he made thors late. I droned pretty horrible I've been getting ass kicked by mass hellions and not transitioning properly in other games. Wasted a few units on accident. There was a time I didn't know how large their army was and I retreated and allowed it to destroy my base but I guess I could of fought it off. I should start properly learning to get better with injects and actually keying them still quite controlling the keybinds to not fuck up and getting something stuck with it during battle. If I had the economy I could of gotten a few more upgrades and pretty lucky his marines weren't really that upgraded.

http://www.sc-replay.com/download.php?id=147848

Been practicing with that person for a while because they are aggressive with Terran and actually can macro behind it around my level of skill. He does a few all ins time to time when I try to fast expand so I've been just going standard 14 gas 14 pool.

[rtil]

BEHOLD! MY PLACEMENT MATCH

http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/29-07-11/1...r.html?justUp=1

unbeatable strat


already rank 1 plat. need to improve my zvt/zvp if i want to move up though i think

[Sinitron]

MECH TERRANS??? omg i gotta see this i love mech fuck marine/tank

[rtil]

Been having some problems with mech builds lately. I got off easy on this one because I sniped two armories and I guess he made thors late. I droned pretty horrible I've been getting ass kicked by mass hellions and not transitioning properly in other games. Wasted a few units on accident. There was a time I didn't know how large their army was and I retreated and allowed it to destroy my base but I guess I could of fought it off. I should start properly learning to get better with injects and actually keying them still quite controlling the keybinds to not fuck up and getting something stuck with it during battle. If I had the economy I could of gotten a few more upgrades and pretty lucky his marines weren't really that upgraded.

http://www.sc-replay.com/download.php?id=147848

Been practicing with that person for a while because they are aggressive with Terran and actually can macro behind it around my level of skill. He does a few all ins time to time when I try to fast expand so I've been just going standard 14 gas 14 pool.

yeah you guys are both pretty even on macro.. either one of you needed at least 20 more harvesters during the peak times of the game. just not enough income coming in at any time. his 2nd and 3rd were never fully saturated and neither was your 3rd. i think there were 5 drones on minerals on your 3rd for the whole game.

you were banking tons of minerals and gas for a very long time. you could have maxed out WAY before him, but you almost never injected and so you had very little larvae. you need to hotkey your queens and inject as much as possible.

don't forget to macro behind a push either. you should be droning up until you have enough drones to fully saturate 3 bases.

as far as pure mech builds go, it's hard to say. you can't go lings because of the hellions, you can't rely on pure roach because of the thors and tanks, and because of that you need a tier 3 unit like the broodlord or ultra. unfortunately ultras are not that great vs thors, and broodlords are so easily countered by mass viking production which is relatively easy for the terran to start doing, and then you have to defend your broods with a 3rd unit like hydras. problem with hydras is the same with lings though. bad vs tanks and hellions (and they are slow as fuck).

it just sucks for zerg when terran goes heavy mech. your best bet is mass MASS roach, fully upgraded, all teched, and backed up by brood lords while making sure your push ends the game or does some serious damage before the broods are hard countered with zero effort from terran as they pump 2x viks out of reactor starports. so in that sense you want to hide brood lord tech until you're ready to play the card. otherwise the vikings will be there when they broods make their move.

oh and it couldnt hurt to have some infestors. mostly for mind control - fungal isn't going to do a lot of damage here.

[Sinitron]

slings aren't so bad against mech if you can use them to flank shit and avoid hellions, they're pretty good against thors and unsieged tanks, even sieged tanks if there aren't too many of them

he didn't have THAT many hellions for the most part, mass sling could possibly have worked

or just mass baneling, since you had tons of resources despite not having nearly enough workers and didn't expand in a timely fashion (for zerg, it should be roughly every 4 minutes or so)

you also forgot baneling speed, that was pretty bad, they're useless without it, and didn't poke around enough with your mutas

roaches are good against mech too, even though thors do tons of damage and tanks have a bonus vs armored you can still use burrow to great effect if he doesn't get a raven, cipher did that to me once (but ofc i rebuilt and DEMOLISHED the puny zerg forces (this would not work twice))

ultras and broods are both pretty solid counters to mech, the idea is to go broods first and force vikings, then if you fail to kill him with broods you get ultras instead and his vikes will be fucking worthless

i didn't really care much for what the other guy was doing, he essentially did a crippled version of marine/tank with thors instead

either you open hellions and transition into marine/tank, or you go pure mech with hellion/tank/thor and upgrades, there's no point in pissing around with a crippled hybrid build since they won't benefit from the mixed upgrades

day9 talked about it once, how you should aim for a lean and effective build while showing some guy smashing a toss with mass marine, it was pretty stupid and everyone cried TERRAN OP instantly, but that's not the point; aim for something that works well in unison with one another, like chargelot/archon or roach/corruptor

roach/corruptor is actually alright against mech since i'm pretty sure the thors will space out and start shooting the corruptors instead of your roaches (which is fucking pointless since they do pissy damage to non-light and corruptors have an assload of health to begin with) and you will already be set up for brood lords

sling/bling/ultra is also a good idea (with infestors of course) as they all benefit from melee upgrades, i saw some master zerg claim that sling/bling was better against mech than roach in the first place (can't verify this as it sounds dumb) but it comes down to unit control and shit

[BluPhoenix]

beat someone's zealots and dts with mass overseers, changeling shields, and hydras

uh..replay?

no

[Crabarms]

Yeah I got a lot to work on. Usually I do drone a lot better but that was horrible. I thought I would just make a few roaches and not over commit to them just do deal with the hellions and try to not lose as many drones. I could probably hold off with spines,queens and I should really be getting mutas a lot faster.

[cipher]

After I watched that placement replay I realized how little I spam click. Half the time I just stop and sit there for and do nothing for like 10 seconds at the start of the game

Yeah I got a lot to work on. Usually I do drone a lot better but that was horrible. I thought I would just make a few roaches and not over commit to them just do deal with the hellions and try to not lose as many drones. I could probably hold off with spines,queens and I should really be getting mutas a lot faster.

If you want to be creative/trust your micro, infestors with neural parasite works well vs mech, with ling/roach as support

[rtil]

i'm not so sure i'd go banelings vs mech. the amount of investment you put into banelings to kill even a single thor puts the terran ahead. maybe if you have the confidence to destroy an entire terran army with banelings and then have the money to instantly macro up another ling army to take out the production facilities and end the game, but it's risky

also

[psi43]

new zergling model blizz made for the new patch:

[Sinitron]

You don't make Banelings to kill the Thors though, you make the banelings to get rid of the Hellions and you can burrow under the slow-moving Tank/Thor blob to do a lot of damage with the splash before engaging, or just kill his army outright. You can also kill any mass-repairing SCVs pretty easily with the splash. Hellions can kite and kill Banelings fairly easily if the T is actually microing, but uh... well, if this T is an indication of the average T Crabs is facing, it shouldn't be a problem. Normally, I can see the little trail that burrowing Roaches leave, but I wouldn't see a Baneling minefield before my mechblob is scrap metal. As the Hellions will usually cover the Tank/Thor blob, you mainly need to keep an eye on where his force is coming from so you can burrow your banelings in advance. It's even better if you can burrow them at a choke slightly away from your creep so he won't scan for tumors and see the Banes instead.

Also, I suggested Banelings because crabs had TONS of money and even at the end he had a bunch of leftover gas. Terrans HATE speed Banelings with a passion, they HATE watching their Thors and Tanks blow up since they're expensive and take forever to make, and they HATE mutaclouds skimming around the edge of the map picking stuff off. You don't even need all that many mutas or kill too much stuff, just picking off some SCVs, a depot or a tech lab is enough to piss people off. It is, however, IMPERATIVE that you poke around with those Mutas as in a serious fight they're not all that great as part of your army.

[rtil]

i've had very bad luck with baneling mines. mostly because a typical terran will have energy lying around for a few scans, so they're running around killing creep tumors. i can make mines off creep, but my creep spread is usually pretty faar and i can only get the mines so close before they see them. ideally i'd like to drop banelings from overlords. it's fun, but a lot harder to do. there's just not much splash to be had when you're talking about mech play and the size of the units. plus, banelings usually get fucked by seiged tanks before they reach their targets. i just don't really use them against higher level terrans. they know how to deal with them and they become relatively ineffective after a certain point

even if a baneling mine does work, it only works once. after that they're scanning like a madman (which is good because they're not using mules), or bringing a raven everywhere with them.

[Sinitron]

burrow outside his base lOL

no but idk for sure all i know is that i'm more likely to see roaches moving around down there and if you blow his hellions up his techy shit is incredibly vulnerable since even though tanks do splash they are kind of frail and a tank/thor blob presents fewer targets so each kill counts for more in terms of percentages when you kill units and they also take longer to replace unless the T has like 50 fucking factories (which isn't cheap)

thors hold up incredibly well even against magic boxed mutas if they have armor upgrades which is what i usually get first due to the hellions' great damage vs light, and tank/thor being alright against armored targets

[rtil]

yeah, i've given up on mutas almost completely bar denying medivac drops as terran players seem to put up missile turrets all over mineral lines out of habit and i neve rhave the extra money vs protoss to spend on a muta harass force. my ideal comp is roach infestor brood lord, the problem is getting there

[Sinitron]

mutas are nice for just chipping away a little at stuff and being an asshole though and you need the spire for broods