Iowa Caucus Final Results

[Nadroj0711]

i like what kucinich says about immigration, but those are two completely different videos
dennis kucinich's video is about immigrants
ron paul's video is about illegal immigrants

[W.A.C.]

Kucinich believes no person is illegal, some are just undocumented.

[rtil]

What exactly is constitutional about letting people\\\'s children whose parents have come illegally have citizenship here?

Do you realize how hard those 11+ million people have made legal immigration? And how much they\\\'re destroying our economy?

I don\\\'t care how hard they worked to get into this country. They are doing nothing but making future immigrants\\\' lives harder.

You are far too compassionate towards other people to have a sound policy on immigration and healthcare.

When you are born in the United States, you are not entitled to a home, a job, healthcare, education, and especially not citizenship if you are an illegal immigrant.

Human beings need to work for these things. The federal government is not obligated to shove a silver spoon down everyone\\\'s throat not only because it is impractical, but because our country cannot afford it. Someday, if the economy and dollar collapse, and inflation balloons, you may realize that. But I suppose Kucinich\\\'s fluffy speech about the Statue of Liberty keeps you feeling comfortable for now.

A lot of people don\\\'t like Ron Paul because he is brutally honest. People don\\\'t want to hear the truth, because it hurts. America is no longer the knight in shining armor that has come to save the world. It never has been, it was a farce and now that we are playing the role we have spun into over $40 trillion dollars in foreign and national debt. This money will fall on you and your family\\\'s shoulders someday, partially in the name of the illegal immigrants you wish to protect.

I\\\'m stunned that this is something you want.

[W.A.C.]

What exactly is constitutional about letting people's children whose parents have come illegally have citizenship here?

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."

It states that in the 14th amendment.

Do you realize how hard those 11+ million people have made legal immigration? And how much they're destroying our economy?

This nation was founded on immigration. One of the main reasons illegal immigrants are "taking people's jobs" is because they have no documentation. If they have the papers, they wouldn't have that advantage and a lot of natural born Americans would have a lot of those jobs. I could be completely wrong though. I honestly don't know enough about how our economy works to have a full understanding of the situation. It should also be kept in mind that most Americans would never do some of the jobs illegal immigrants do.

I don't care how hard they worked to get into this country. They are doing nothing but making future immigrants' lives harder.

If the government made it where immigration actually becomes easier, I don't see how it would make those future immigrants' lives harder.

You are far too compassionate towards other people to have a sound policy on immigration and healthcare.

You might be right on that one.

When you are born in the United States, you are not entitled to a home, a job, healthcare, education, and especially not citizenship if you are an illegal immigrant.

Human beings need to work for these things. The federal government is not obligated to shove a silver spoon down everyone's throat not only because it is impractical, but because our country cannot afford it. Someday, if the economy and dollar collapse, and inflation balloons, you may realize that. But I suppose Kucinich's fluffy speech about the Statue of Liberty keeps you feeling comfortable for now.

I believe all Americans should have access to healthcare. Isn't America the only industrialized nation that doesn't have universal healthcare? France is ranked #1 in healthcare and their healthcare is universal. If it works in countries like France, why wouldn't it work in America? As for education, college should at least be affordable. For people in the middle class, current college fees are ridiculous. What does Ron Paul plan to do when it comes to college education?

A lot of people don't like Ron Paul because he is brutally honest. People don't want to hear the truth, because it hurts.

I like him but I'm not exactly sure if some of his ideas would work as well as some ideas by some other politicians.

America is no longer the knight in shining armor that has come to save the world. It never has been, it was a farce and now that we are playing the role we have spun into over $40 trillion dollars in foreign and national debt. This money will fall on you and your family's shoulders someday, partially in the name of the illegal immigrants you wish to protect.

I agree 100%.

I'm stunned that this is something you want.

I'll start to take economics this January. Maybe it'll change my opinion on some of this. Also, it's bizarre seeing you use good punctuation for once.

[rtil]

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
It states that in the 14th amendment.

From wikipedia, In law, naturalization refers to an act whereby a person acquires a citizenship different from that person's citizenship at birth. Naturalization is most commonly associated with economic migrants or refugees who have immigrated to a country and resided there as aliens, and who have voluntarily and actively chosen to become citizens of that country after meeting specific requirements..

One can lose citizenship in this country if they are illegaly naturalized. The constitution does not clearly state anything involving illegal immigration because it didn't exist when the document was written.

Being so broad, one usually wonders what it means. The fourteenth amendment, if anything, was designed to push the Union's agenda onto the former Confederate states to stop segregation and racism. The amendment before it is to abolish slavery. Some Confederate states who did not want to ratify the 14h amendment were threatened to be kicked out of the union if they did not ratify it, which is a violation of the Fifth Amendment. anyway, i'm not trying to say the amendment is bad or false, but it's being taken out of context now to protect people that are weakening the nation.

Keep in mind that we did not have hundreds of federal programs these people could have taken benefit of like we do today.

This nation was founded on immigration. One of the main reasons illegal immigrants are "taking people's jobs" is because they have no documentation. If they have the papers, they wouldn't have that advantage and a lot of natural born Americans would have a lot of those jobs. I could be completely wrong though. I honestly don't know enough about how our economy works to have a full understanding of the situation. It should also be kept in mind that most Americans would never do some of the jobs illegal immigrants do.

What, like working in fast food and construction work? I know plenty of Americans who would do that kind of work. They're dead end jobs but they get students by and pay the bills if they have to. That's a poor excuse for illegal immigration.

And I'm not sure what you're trying to get at about the correlation between documentation and a weakened job market, as far as supporting your stance goes.

If the government made it where immigration actually becomes easier, I don't see how it would make those future immigrants' lives harder.

It does take too long to get into this country legally, but in most countries it's impossible to migrate to. Try getting citizenship in Japan, or China. now that's a leap.

I believe all Americans should have access to healthcare. Isn't America the only industrialized nation that doesn't have universal healthcare? France is ranked #1 in healthcare and their healthcare is universal. If it works in countries like France, why wouldn't it work in America? As for education, college should at least be affordable. For people in the middle class, current college fees are ridiculous. What does Ron Paul plan to do when it comes to college education?

So what if France has the #1 healthcare system in the world? They hardly have a workforce, and I'll be damned if their supposed amazing healthcare system lasts more than a decade. Their government workers want full pensions and retirement at the age of only 50, and you think that their universal healthcare plan is going to stay afloat with that kind of lazy attitude? The French are spoiled, and their country is much smaller and less complicated than ours. They also don't have large healthcare corporations that they need to dismantle.

And why do you believe all Americans should have access to healthcare? What did they do to deserve it? Exist?

Ron Paul would get rid of the department of education and stop fruitless federal spending on education programs that get nothing done. that money would then be loosed to the states and they can do with it what they will.

and college fees have always been expensive, that will never change, and a president can hardly do anything about it to begin with. so deal with it.

[Gavin]

and college fees have always been expensive, that will never change, and a president can hardly do anything about it to begin with. so deal with it.

Most regular American families can't just "deal with it" because of their lack of money. I can't believe you would seriously just say "deal with it" to that issue.

Whether the President can do anything or not, saying "deal with it" is stupid.

[rtil]

Paying student loans is a reality for most Americans. It\\\'s not stupid, it\\\'s a part of life

Any simpleton can pay their way through community college with a steady job. And you get a better education at a CC than most universities, believe it or not

[W.A.C.]

One can lose citizenship in this country if they are illegaly naturalized.

The constitution does not clearly state anything involving illegal immigration because it didn't exist when the document was written.

Because of that one line from the constitution, I still consider it unconstitutional to get rid of birthright citizenship.

anyway, i'm not trying to say the amendment is bad or false, but it's being taken out of context now to protect people that are weakening the nation.

How is it being taken out of context?

Keep in mind that we did not have hundreds of federal programs these people could have taken benefit of like we do today.

I'm somewhat confused by this sentence.

And I'm not sure what you're trying to get at about the correlation between documentation and a weakened job market, as far as supporting your stance goes.

If illegals had documentation, businesses would have to pay them minimum wage if they hire them. Because those illegals don't have papers, businesses often hire them over American citizens because they can get away with paying the illegals barely anything. If a lot of the illegals had papers, a lot of job advantages would go to American born citizens instead of illegal immigrants.

It does take too long to get into this country legally, but in most countries it's impossible to migrate to. Try getting citizenship in Japan, or China. now that's a leap.

I know that one of the tests illegals must take to become American citizens are too hard for most Americans to pass successfully. That alone makes it ridiculously difficult for an illegal immigrant to become a legal American citizen with his family.

So what if France has the #1 healthcare system in the world? They hardly have a workforce, and I'll be damned if their supposed amazing healthcare system lasts more than a decade. Their government workers want full pensions and retirement at the age of only 50, and you think that their universal healthcare plan is going to stay afloat with that kind of lazy attitude? The French are spoiled, and their country is much smaller and less complicated than ours. They also don't have large healthcare corporations that they need to dismantle.

The French probably are spoiled compared to Americans but they have a right to be if their government allows them to be spoiled.

And why do you believe all Americans should have access to healthcare? What did they do to deserve it? Exist?

I believe everyone deserves the right to healthcare. According to Wikipedia, we live in the only industrialized nation that doesn't have universal healthcare. It only seem logical to give everyone healthcare. If you don't believe everyone deserves healthcare, can't you at least agree that children deserve it? It's not like a lot of children in rich families had to fight for great healthcare. Those children are lucky. If something horrible happened to me at a young age, I would've probably been screwed because I often didn't have good access to healthcare. On the movie Sicko, a guy no longer has a middle finger because he didn't have access to good healthcare. No American should have to throw away a finger because he or she doesn't have health insurance. That just seems immoral.

Ron Paul would get rid of the department of education and stop fruitless federal spending on education programs that get nothing done. that money would then be loosed to the states and they can do with it what they will.

Oh. That idea is interesting.

and college fees have always been expensive, that will never change, and a president can hardly do anything about it to begin with. so deal with it.

A lot of people in the middle class will have to be in debt for many years if those people choose to go to college. Now, if you're either in the wealthy class or if you're below middle class, you're often at a huge advantage. I'll have to pay for barely anything in college because my parents only make a certain amount of money year yet someone who's parents make a good amount of money will mostly likely be in debt for a very long time. That just doesn't seem right.

Edit-

Btw, Kucinich is being excluded from ABC's New Hampshire debates. [LINK]

[mishkamash]

i don't wanna live in NH anymore

[psi43]

Can somebody please make a list of every candidate with a pro/contra thing? School starts soon and I can act like I know a lot about politics then.

preferably WAC, Jordan or rtil.

[Nadroj0711]

well, I'm pretty sure WAC's topics gives you a list of all the candidates
http://www.thebackalleys.com/forum/index.p...amp;#entry25228

[psi43]

well, I'm pretty sure WAC's topics gives you a list of all the candidates
http://www.thebackalleys.com/forum/index.p...amp;#entry25228

Yeah but instead of the names I'd like to know the good and bad things about them and the way they would lead the country and what they stay for. Something summed up in one post. Maybe then I can start to talk about that politics stuff on the backalleys, too then!

[mishkamash]

i hate politics

also drama

[Philip K Dick]

caucus

[W.A.C.]

Here's some random facts about Dennis Kucinich:
-If he became president, he would try to get the troops out of Iraq ASAP.
-He voted against going to war and he is the only Democrat running for president that voted against it. (If Gravel voted against it, feel free to correct me since I know nothing about Gravel.)
-He voted against the Patriot Act and wants to overturn it.
-He's been trying to impeach both Bush and Chaney for a while now. During a debate, he even said "Impeach Bush now!"
-He's supports gay marriages.
-He's pro-choice.
-He's a hardcore liberal.
-He believes in universal healthcare and his plan is different from the three front runners of the Democratic party.
-He believes the drinking age should be 18 instead of 21.
-He believes both medical marijuana and recreational usage of marijuana should be legal. He has never smoked pot in his life.

You can view videos on some of his plans for certain issues on this page. Also, here's some 6 minute video that says some stuff about Kucinich and his history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNUyZGw3UNI

Here's some random facts about Hilary, Edwards, and Obama. I'm not making a big list because I don't feel like it. I would say some facts about Ron Paul but rtil knows way more about him than I do.

-Hilary and Obama voted yes on reauthorizing the Patriot Act.
-Hilary, Edwards, and Obama are pro-choice.
-Both Hilary and Edwards voted yes on authorizing use of military force against Iraq.
-Hilary has years of experience.

[Nadroj0711]

fyi, WAC
no one said they didn't like kucinich

[rtil]

Because of that one line from the constitution, I still consider it unconstitutional to get rid of birthright citizenship.

The constitution is a flexible document, and I think if the founding fathers were here today and saw what is going on in the south, they would have something else to say about that.

How is it being taken out of context?

Because it was originally created to push away from segregation. Now it's being used to protect people breaking numerous federal laws.

Keep in mind that we did not have hundreds of federal programs these people could have taken benefit of like we do today.

I'm somewhat confused by this sentence.

Illegals can now get government cheese whereas 100 years ago there were no federal programs people could take advantage of.

If illegals had documentation, businesses would have to pay them minimum wage if they hire them. Because those illegals don't have papers, businesses often hire them over American citizens because they can get away with paying the illegals barely anything. If a lot of the illegals had papers, a lot of job advantages would go to American born citizens instead of illegal immigrants.

Illegals would have documentation if they came here legally. And documenting 11 million+ illegal immigrants is impossible.

I know that one of the tests illegals must take to become American citizens are too hard for most Americans to pass successfully. That alone makes it ridiculously difficult for an illegal immigrant to become a legal American citizen with his family.

Not really. They make them take that test (amongst other things) to make sure that they're motivated to come here and become contributing citizens. if it was easy for them to come here, they might as well be border hoppers.

not that it should take 10 years, but i see no reason to remove a simple test. i believe it's around 100 questions. i aced one of those in 7th grade. that wasn't hard.

The French probably are spoiled compared to Americans but they have a right to be if their government allows them to be spoiled.

they don't. they just go on strike until they give them part of what they want.

I believe everyone deserves the right to healthcare. According to Wikipedia, we live in the only industrialized nation that doesn't have universal healthcare. It only seem logical to give everyone healthcare. If you don't believe everyone deserves healthcare, can't you at least agree that children deserve it? It's not like a lot of children in rich families had to fight for great healthcare. Those children are lucky. If something horrible happened to me at a young age, I would've probably been screwed because I often didn't have good access to healthcare. On the movie Sicko, a guy no longer has a middle finger because he didn't have access to good healthcare. No American should have to throw away a finger because he or she doesn't have health insurance. That just seems immoral.

please god do not reference that biased and horrible movie sicko. if i'm not mistaken it uses Canada's healthcare system as a better example of how things should be done. people die in their hospitals too, but for different reasons. since EVERYONE has access to healthcare, people have to wait. they wait so long they die. and if they don't die, they get a doctor that sucks, since there's an outstretched need for doctors, crappier doctors get hired.

that guy who lost his finger was a moron. Federal law ensures that all US citizens are eligible for medical services, regardless if they can pay.

the problem with our healthcare system is that insurance corporations are mostly crooked and the money they demand on top of federal tax subsidies for government healthcare programs make healthcare unaffordable for most people.

so, the problem lies herein that there has been too much federal control of our medical system. you think that this would be solved by giving MORE federal control to our healthcare system by making a one-pay system? i'm not sure where you're thinking this would work. just because it's "working" in other countries doesn't mean it would work in ours.

the federal government has no right to regulate doctors and their practices. the doctors are the experts - not the federal government. this where most of the problems arise.

you know , children are in fact covered by the federal government's health care system - including veterans, senior citizens and the disabled. their health care system covers about 1/4th of the nation, and it's already bad. do you think by covering the rest of the nation it will somehow improve?

Ron Paul wants to remove ALL federal regulation from small businesses that want to provide coverage without soaring costs thanks to the feds and big medicine companies. He wants to make all medical expenses tax deductable, eliminating more costs for citizens. This would in turn give doctors their chance to work with insurance companies and bring down the ridiculous costs of healthcare thanks to meaningless regulation. This would discourage Americans from forcing themselves to think they need a high-cost insurance policy that is ultimately useless to begin with and is altogether unaffordable for most anyway.

This would make medical care local, privatized, and keep the government OUT of it so that things can be done the way they're supposed to be, without maxing out costs and making everyone's lives more difficult.

Bottom line is socialized medicine is NOT the answer. and if you think it is, you should take a look at how the feds handled Katrina and realize that kind of bureaucracy is going to apply to how they handle our healthcare. Poor use of funds, unorganized, uneducated, and untimely.

It just amazes me how much people like you want the government to control your life more and more.

A lot of people in the middle class will have to be in debt for many years if those people choose to go to college. Now, if you're either in the wealthy class or if you're below middle class, you're often at a huge advantage. I'll have to pay for barely anything in college because my parents only make a certain amount of money year yet someone who's parents make a good amount of money will mostly likely be in debt for a very long time. That just doesn't seem right.

You were just talking about socialized medicine, and now you're saying it's unfair that the wealthy need to pay their children through college and that the middle and low-class get benefits?

Bottom line is if you want to send your kid to a good college - chances are it's privately owned and the expenses there are none of the government's business. Scholarships and pay programs are available for people that want to go there. But community colleges are great and affordable places for literally everyone, and they offer optimal education for a wide variety of programs.

If you want to talk about problems in education, I'd say the real issue is in our PUBLIC education system, the k-12 area.

Btw, Kucinich is being excluded from ABC's New Hampshire debates. [LINK]

Just like with Hunter, Paul, Gravel and Richardson, major networks are trying to weed out candidates they think are irrelevant (IE candidates that haven't gotten big bucks from sponsors). it's a huge mistaken. the New Hampshire GOP already backed out of sponsoring Fox's debate because they excluded Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter. There's also looming threats of boycotting Fox's multiple other sponsors. I say go for it

[rtil]

Can somebody please make a list of every candidate with a pro/contra thing? School starts soon and I can act like I know a lot about politics then.

preferably WAC, Jordan or rtil.

i can't say pros or cons because i don't know where you stand on things
here's a crude summary of each candidate

hillary clinton - big money candidate, loose platform based on her husband's campaign, anti-war, pro-federalist, likes to spend money, amnesty for 11 million illegal immigrants
barack obama - socialist, pro-war, pro-expansionist, program of path to citizenship for illegals
john edwards - socialist, anti-war, economic independence, program of path to citizenship for illegals
dennis kucinich - anti-war, very liberal (humanist), anti-expansionist, socialist, amnesty for 11 million illegal immigrants
rudy giuliani - pro-war, pro-north american union, pro-big government, big spender, pro-national ID card, loss of individual freedom in return for security, border security
mike huckabee - pro-war, zionist, expansionist, will remove separation of church and state, big spender, tax hikes, privatized medical care
john mccain - pro-war, expansionist, less government spending, wants to keep medicare and medicaid programs, border security
ron paul - anti-war, anti-establishment, small government, privatized industry, free market/privatized health care, national sovereignty, border security and deportation of 11 million illegals
mitt romney - pro-war, expansionist, free market health care, small government, border security and deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants

[W.A.C.]

Because it was originally created to push away from segregation. Now it's being used to protect people breaking numerous federal laws.

Just because it was designed for another purpose in mind doesn't mean it shouldn't still be kept.

Illegals can now get government cheese whereas 100 years ago there were no federal programs people could take advantage of.

Oh.

Illegals would have documentation if they came here legally. And documenting 11 million+ illegal immigrants is impossible.

How is it impossible?

Not really. They make them take that test (amongst other things) to make sure that they're motivated to come here and become contributing citizens. if it was easy for them to come here, they might as well be border hoppers.

If a test is too hard for most Americans, why should it be that difficult for immigrants?

not that it should take 10 years, but i see no reason to remove a simple test. i believe it's around 100 questions. i aced one of those in 7th grade. that wasn't hard.

If the test you took is nearly identical, most Americans must be pretty fucking stupid. :/

they don't. they just go on strike until they give them part of what they want.

The life expectancy rate is probably much higher in France.

please god do not reference that biased and horrible movie sicko. if i'm not mistaken it uses Canada's healthcare system as a better example of how things should be done. people die in their hospitals too, but for different reasons. since EVERYONE has access to healthcare, people have to wait. they wait so long they die. and if they don't die, they get a doctor that sucks, since there's an outstretched need for doctors, crappier doctors get hired.

That sucks.

that guy who lost his finger was a moron. Federal law ensures that all US citizens are eligible for medical services, regardless if they can pay.

the problem with our healthcare system is that insurance corporations are mostly crooked and the money they demand on top of federal tax subsidies for government healthcare programs make healthcare unaffordable for most people.

That guy probably couldn't afford healthcare.

so, the problem lies herein that there has been too much federal control of our medical system. you think that this would be solved by giving MORE federal control to our healthcare system by making a one-pay system? i'm not sure where you're thinking this would work. just because it's "working" in other countries doesn't mean it would work in ours.

the federal government has no right to regulate doctors and their practices. the doctors are the experts - not the federal government. this where most of the problems arise.

you know , children are in fact covered by the federal government's health care system - including veterans, senior citizens and the disabled. their health care system covers about 1/4th of the nation, and it's already bad. do you think by covering the rest of the nation it will somehow improve?

Kucinich's plan sounds pretty good though.

Ron Paul wants to remove ALL federal regulation from small businesses that want to provide coverage without soaring costs thanks to the feds and big medicine companies. He wants to make all medical expenses tax deductable, eliminating more costs for citizens. This would in turn give doctors their chance to work with insurance companies and bring down the ridiculous costs of healthcare thanks to meaningless regulation. This would discourage Americans from forcing themselves to think they need a high-cost insurance policy that is ultimately useless to begin with and is altogether unaffordable for most anyway.

What if someone was poor and couldn't afford Ron Paul's healthcare plan? Then what? Wouldn't that person be screwed? Some people are just very unlucky.

"This would make medical care local, privatized, and keep the government OUT of it so that things can be done the way they're supposed to be, without maxing out costs and making everyone's lives more difficult." -rtil

It wouldn't make everyone's lives easier. Example: The poor.

"Bottom line is socialized medicine is NOT the answer. and if you think it is, you should take a look at how the feds handled Katrina and realize that kind of bureaucracy is going to apply to how they handle our healthcare. Poor use of funds, unorganized, uneducated, and untimely." -rtil

It seems to work fine in countries like France though. Maybe our government just sucks at managing certain things compared to other countries. I partially blame Bush.

"It just amazes me how much people like you want the government to control your life more and more." -rtil

I don't consider universal healthcare "controlling" our lives, I consider it a way to have healthcare for everyone.

"You were just talking about socialized medicine, and now you're saying it's unfair that the wealthy need to pay their children through college and that the middle and low-class get benefits?" -rtil

You mistranslated my post big time. My point was that it was unfair for people in the middle class. Because my parents only make a certain amount of money each other that's lower than the "middle class", college is going to cost me barely anything compared to people with parents in the middle class. Rich people with rich parents don't have to worry much either when it comes to college because their parents' usually pays for college. It's not fair to people with parents in the middle class.

"Bottom line is if you want to send your kid to a good college - chances are it's privately owned and the expenses there are none of the government's business. Scholarships and pay programs are available for people that want to go there. But community colleges are great and affordable places for literally everyone, and they offer optimal education for a wide variety of programs." -rtil

I still think college shouldn't be so expensive for people in the middle class.

"If you want to talk about problems in education, I'd say the real issue is in our PUBLIC education system, the k-12 area." -rtil

That is a big issue.

"Just like with Hunter, Paul, Gravel and Richardson, major networks are trying to weed out candidates they think are irrelevant (IE candidates that haven't gotten big bucks from sponsors). it's a huge mistaken. the New Hampshire GOP already backed out of sponsoring Fox's debate because they excluded Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter. There's also looming threats of boycotting Fox's multiple other sponsors. I say go for it" -rtil

Did the New Hampshire GOP sponsor ABC? Also, Paul and Richardson were included in ABC's debates last night. Because of that, a lot of people know they're still in the race but a lot of people probably think Kucinich is out of the race which hurts his campaign. To make matters worse for Kucinich, the debates last night helped a lot of people choose who they want to vote for. It's pretty much guaranteed that Kucinich's campaign is going to suffer thanks to ABC. Also, a lot of people to consider Fox News an invalid news source yet many probably think ABC has a lot more validity.

Edit-

rtil, can you please increase the quote boxes limit? I wasn't able to use as many quote boxes as I wanted to in this post. I tried double posting but it would let me.

[rtil]

Illegals would have documentation if they came here legally. And documenting 11 million+ illegal immigrants is impossible.

How is it impossible?

the federal government can't save a guy's finger, and you think they can document 11 million displaced people?

If a test is too hard for most Americans, why should it be that difficult for immigrants?

because americans are stupid

If the test you took is nearly identical, most Americans must be pretty fucking stupid. :/

see above. is this news to you?

The life expectancy rate is probably much higher in France.

i doubt it. life expectancy is mostly reflective of diet. here's looking at you, japan.

That guy probably couldn't afford healthcare.

"Federal law ensures that all US citizens are eligible for medical services, regardless if they can pay." -me, last post I made that I think you read

Kucinich's plan sounds pretty good though.

Kucinich's plan is the same plan as every other democrats' - a single-pay socialized medicine healthcare plan. but they don't say 'socialized medicine' because it scares americans. 'universal healthcare' sounds more american!! THESE COLORS DON'T RUN YEAH

What if someone was poor and couldn't afford Ron Paul's healthcare plan? Then what? Wouldn't that person be screwed? Some people are just very unlucky.

If someone couldn't afford Ron Paul's healthcare plan, they're probably homeless or have no source of income.

"This would make medical care local, privatized, and keep the government OUT of it so that things can be done the way they're supposed to be, without maxing out costs and making everyone's lives more difficult." -rtil

It wouldn't make everyone's lives easier. Example: The poor.

It don't think this is registering into your head - local and privatized healthcare would be CHEAP. People pay the max for medical bills these days to make up for the extensive costs and tax subsidies - which WOULDN'T EXIST under privatized healthcare. This would make it more accessible to the poor. And who says that they would be denied healthcare by a privatized healthcare industry as opposed to a federal system? Doctors care more about your life than the government does.

It seems to work fine in countries like France though. Maybe our government just sucks at managing certain things compared to other countries. I partially blame Bush.

lmao you can't just compare the United States to a country like France and say "it works over there!" that's like saying we should be isolationist because it's been working so well for the Japanese.

I don't consider universal healthcare "controlling" our lives, I consider it a way to have healthcare for everyone.

Under socialized medicine, the government decides:
1. if you actually need healthcare
2. if you're eligible for healthcare
3. what you'll pay for healthcare
4. when you'll get it
5. where you'll get it

it's not some magical dream where everyone gets everything for nothing. there are weaknesses to the system. big ones. big ones that this capitalist country has failed in tackling.

You mistranslated my post big time. My point was that it was unfair for people in the middle class. Because my parents only make a certain amount of money each other that's lower than the "middle class", college is going to cost me barely anything compared to people with parents in the middle class. Rich people with rich parents don't have to worry much either when it comes to college because their parents' usually pays for college. It's not fair to people with parents in the middle class.

well then, let's tax the rich to make a federal reserve for middle class kids so they don't have to pay money to go to college either. whee

I still think college shouldn't be so expensive for people in the middle class.

you remember the silver spoon thing i was talking about? yeah. welcome to the world, it isn't perfect. life is full of struggles. paying for college is something everyone goes through. it's not traumatizing, it's a part of life. and the federal government isn't going to pat your back on the way through it.

Did the New Hampshire GOP sponsor ABC? Also, Paul and Richardson were included in ABC's debates last night. Because of that, a lot of people know they're still in the race but a lot of people probably think Kucinich is out of the race which hurts his campaign. To make matters worse for Kucinich, the debates last night helped a lot of people choose who they want to vote for. It's pretty much guaranteed that Kucinich's campaign is going to suffer thanks to ABC. Also, a lot of people to consider Fox News an invalid news source yet many probably think ABC has a lot more validity.

Fox is a horribly crooked network. They've been caught pulling fraudulent polls and phony surveys all the time to report what they want to hear, not what's real news. Anyway, as far as Kucinich's campaign goes, well, his odds for the oval office are 250 to 1, literally. while it is unfair that his excluded from debates, the guys' campaign has gone absolutely nowhere since early last year.

rtil, can you please increase the quote boxes limit? I wasn't able to use as many quote boxes as I wanted to in this post. I tried double posting but it would let me.

was at 10, just changed it to 30