new cartoon

[Philip K Dick]

elf tower new mexico

[wps]

goddamnit I wrote this big nice post and it gets all ignored ):

[rtil]

I think a man on an island with a coconut tree survives longer than a man on an island with a painted masterpiece.

well i don't know any men starving on islands, so this doesn't mean anything to me.

Also, making fastfood takes less time than making a traditional Chinese dish
But.. a traditional Chinese dish tastes allot better

We got all the time in the world, why speed up the process?
Quality must always be more important than quantity

What use is it for an animation to be made quickly?
It's not like the watchers would notice.
It's not like the audience would give a standing ovation for a cartoon purely because it was done in a few seconds.
Actually.. art always gets allot more admiration if the viewer understands how much time someone "wasted" on something.

Art isn't about time, it's about the love you put into it

i had 2 weeks to produce the cartoon. i guarantee you it would have looked much worse if i had attempted to make it in mspaint. part of being an animator (and a chef) is having a lot of tricks up your sleeves. i used everything at my disposal to make the best product i could in a limited amount of time. i worked on it every second i was awake and not off wasting time christmas shopping.

i fail to see the logic in your argument that animating everything with the most primitive tools is the only way to create something truly beautiful.


i love animation more than anything, and because i don't purposely limit myself doesn't mean i don't.

[wps]

Well you kept talking about wasting time, and I said that how much time you waste shouldn't matter in animation

Also, animating in mspaint would be plain fuckin badass
I'm not mad at you not using it but

There's no way you should diss someone who's able to make an animated masterpiece with mspaint, I've tried it sometimes without success


Also, I was just stating how unimportant everything actually is.. and that you don't really have the right to call one unimportant thing more important than the other unimportant thing.
Because IN THE BIG PICTURE animation is unimportant
animation hasn't cured cancer yet or saved orphans from burning buildings

[rtil]

if someone made an animated masterpiece in mspaint i would admire them for their patience and hard work, but personally i'd never attempt it. life here is short, there's only so much we can do. if i can make something faster and better with something else, i'm going to do it. and the tool isn't using me, i'm using the tool.

i also disagree with you about animation. i think animation is very important and has the power to change people's lives. people die every day and germs and bugs will always be mutating and science will always be trying to catch up to them. but animation (and art) is permanent and its effect on human life is more significant than you probably think it is.

[wps]

I don't think you really understand me
Yes art is useful in today's modern society
They're tunnels to each other's psyche and make us learn about each other's opinion and yadda yadda yatadda


But it's not as important as survival

Nothing is

A government should not be spending it's money on restoring/buying old paintings if it's people are starving. Art is a low priority compared to shelter, water, food, w/e.


I care about art
I visit museums, old buildings, artistic movies in filmhouses, operas,
I read classical literature.

But despite the worlds opened by other creative minds are amazingly fascinating, and despite the paintings that grab me and drag me into their worlds, and despite the books who's words stick to me like leaches,

I am realistic enough to know that in the big BIG GIGANTIC, HUGE MOTHERFUCKING picture, that we humans are still nothing but animals

and if it wasn't for us being on top of the food chain, we wouldn't even be bothered to do anything than hunting or running in fear

So yes.. in that point of view art doesn't matter

[Sinitron]

i completely disagree with you. i believe animation is the most powerful tool to communicate to human beings on any level.

Do you think Disney or Nintendo gives a flying fuck about telling the story about a young boy losing his best friend and then saving the world to avenge him or some shit? No. They do it for the money, so they can keep their operations on the go. Best way to do this? Appeal. If they had the choice between something radical and fresh that could flop or something generic that would generate income regardless they would go with the more profitable option. That's why I despise generally professionalized industries that aim for the money and prefer a more localized and homely business to any corporation.

i had 2 weeks to produce it, it was a christmas present for a close friend. i wasn't going to do something as stupid as attempt to animate it in mspaint then hope to god it will sync up with music when i import it to flash. you're simply trying to downplay the cartoon in a pitiful attempt to make me look like i'm lazy.

Well you didn't exactly put too much detail into it, it is far from impossible to do the same in MS paint during the same period of time (It's not like one would make a new *.bmp for every single fucking image), and you can always manually sync it while putting it all together. Of course, I am 95% self-taught, I'm used to finding solutions to problems that shouldn't even exist, and I have a clear advantage over most people at this stage. As you go to school for this shit you've probably been taught a bunch of crap and followed guidelines and whatever that was never present for me and Wally.

it's ironic, because you're the one who never gets any work done.

Wrong. I may not do much animation, sure, but I do alot of manual labor and the like. I'd much rather be able to fend for myself than rely on other people buying my goods.

[Sinitron]

ps ms paint is still way more fun to use

[wps]

ps ms paint is still way more fun to use

ok with this the discussion is officially closed


we won


me and sin are a bunch of intellectual motherfuckers

[psi43]

it's all fucking unimportant if you're starving on a fucking island

I don't really get your point. You could say the whole life is unimportant. The only important thing is finding the cure to every sickness there is, that is how every human should live. Everyone will die that doesn't mean that everything besides preventing human from dying is unimportant. Art has a huge impact on people, it inspires them and whatnot. Movies entertain people, games entartain people, too. A lot of people like to play soccer and other sports for entertaining, too and for a nice body.

your logic doesn't really make sense but I don't want to write an essey about everything you said sooo! I will leave it with that (I will probably respond to your response but grg)

[rtil]

I don't think you really understand me
Yes art is useful in today's modern society
They're tunnels to each other's psyche and make us learn about each other's opinion and yadda yadda yatadda


But it's not as important as survival

Nothing is

A government should not be spending it's money on restoring/buying old paintings if it's people are starving. Art is a low priority compared to shelter, water, food, w/e.


I care about art
I visit museums, old buildings, artistic movies in filmhouses, operas,
I read classical literature.

But despite the worlds opened by other creative minds are amazingly fascinating, and despite the paintings that grab me and drag me into their worlds, and despite the books who's words stick to me like leaches,

I am realistic enough to know that in the big BIG GIGANTIC, HUGE MOTHERFUCKING picture, that we humans are still nothing but animals

and if it wasn't for us being on top of the food chain, we wouldn't even be bothered to do anything than hunting or running in fear

So yes.. in that point of view art doesn't matter

well i don't live from that viewpoint. i've not had to worry about survival my entire life, and i don't foresee an issue on me struggling to survive any time in the near future.

and keep in mind that in the middle ages art was an essential part of many people's survival. without the guise of religion behind many of the paintings and cathedrals of that time many people probably would have rather died as their lives were incredibly grim. art has been an essential part of humankind since the beginning of our recorded history, in that it separates us from being animals. hell, even some animals and bugs create art, but not with the same intentions. theirs is instinct, ours is intellect.

[wps]

Ah for fuck's sake never mind

this is just a repetive fucking bullshit


Look, shitheads,

Edvard Munch's The Scream is an important painting, Rembrandt van Rijn's de Nachtwacht is an important painting, the work of Jeroen Bosch is important, Francesca Goya's work is important.
All important in today's society.

Goya showed the horrors inside of us, Bosch showed our imagination for the first time in human history, Edvard Munch painted emotions that were unspeakable back then, and the Nachtwacht was just badass.

I never said that art was completely unimportant, only compared to the bottom of the Maslow Pyramid


It's important for the history of today's culture and today's philosophy etc. etc.



But most of all these paintings and artists will always
ALWAYS
ALWAAAAAYSSSS

be more important than all you shitters combinedddddddddd


the end now shut up

[rtil]

Do you think Disney or Nintendo gives a flying fuck about telling the story about a young boy losing his best friend and then saving the world to avenge him or some shit? No. They do it for the money, so they can keep their operations on the go. Best way to do this? Appeal. If they had the choice between something radical and fresh that could flop or something generic that would generate income regardless they would go with the more profitable option. That's why I despise generally professionalized industries that aim for the money and prefer a more localized and homely business to any corporation.

Who said I was talking about Disney and Nintendo?

Well you didn't exactly put too much detail into it, it is far from impossible to do the same in MS paint during the same period of time (It's not like one would make a new *.bmp for every single fucking image), and you can always manually sync it while putting it all together. Of course, I am 95% self-taught, I'm used to finding solutions to problems that shouldn't even exist, and I have a clear advantage over most people at this stage. As you go to school for this shit you've probably been taught a bunch of crap and followed guidelines and whatever that was never present for me and Wally.

It's hard for me to speak to you because you think you are better than everyone.

I wasn't going for a detailed style, I was going for a limited palette in an 8 or 16-bit minimalistic style. Not everything has to be detailed to be good, and I think it's quite clear i was not aiming for that. Even then some, I don't think you've ever done pixel art as some of the still frames (such as the downtown scene and the dbz poses) took some time to draw on a blown up scale.

And you obviously know nothing about what it is like to be in an art school. You can go to an art school your whole life and still be the worst artist on the planet. You are told to do things but applying them is what actually matters. Going to art school is not a ticket to being a good artist or animator, and guidelines and rules are actually what kills animation and art.

You have just as many opportunities as me to excel in art, and me going to school presents no advantage over me to you or wps or anyone. How foolish and hypocritical of you to even think that.

I am aware how someone would go about animating in MS paint. I didn't do it because I preferred to try the new pixel tools plugin I had installed, not because I was told by a teacher to do it.

They don't even teach traditional animation at my school anymore. I choose to do it on my own because I enjoy and respect the medium. I study people who I think are masters, and take the principles of animation and try to keep them in mind at all times.

These things are freely available to you and you know it. Your "you go to school and I don't" story is a pile of shit.

Wrong. I may not do much animation, sure, but I do alot of manual labor and the like. I'd much rather be able to fend for myself than rely on other people buying my goods.

What do you mean "fend for myself"? Just as I rely on people to offer commission work, you rely on contractors to give you work. It is no different.

[mexifry]

Okay:

I have CS3
I have Extention Manager
I have Pixel Toons
I installed it
I even restarted my computer.

It still does't work.
Am I looking under the wrong section?
I looked under the pencil tool like I've heard.

[REvo]

I'll make a tutorial on it. Hold up.

[mexifry]

I'll make a tutorial on it. Hold up.

You don't have to go that far.
Does it not work on mac?

[REvo]

I'll make a tutorial on it. Hold up.

You don't have to go that far.
Does it not work on mac?

You sure? It'd only take a couple of minutes... and I'm pretty sure it should work on a mac...

[mexifry]

You sure? It'd only take a couple of minutes... and I'm pretty sure it should work on a mac...

Well if it will take you a short time, then go for it.
I just dont want to be a burden.

[anigen]

animation in general is a waste of time, so why not waste some more time challenging yourself instead of always picking the easy way out like some lazy nigg

that's retarded. animation is in no way "the easy way out" and neither is art school. i bet you wouldnt last one semester in digipen

everything is art, and art is more significant and lasting than sport
and it's a waste of time because it can be done quicker and better with something else. limiting yourself purposely is self-defeating

i agree that art is more significant. sport is purely entertainment. art is more than entertainment, it is not simply limited to that. it is also creation. we as human beings are meant to create. football for example brings nothing but monotony. i cannot sit through a single game of football, not because theres nothing appealing about it, but because it never goes anywhere or changes. the same thing happens every year. animation/art takes away the limitations of monotony. true, the current animation industry is falling down the shitter, but this does not mean (and im talking to sinister here) that animation and art as a whole are completely insignificant in comparison.

art moves into the future while sport stands still.

also, i do not understand the mspaint argument. there is nothing appealing about the program in my opinion aside from the fact that, as wally stated, is so limited that making a masterpiece out of it would truly be an accomplishment. otherwise, there is no need to use the program unless you: 1. want the general layout and pixel consistency of mspaint, 2. don't like change, 3. dislike flash, or 4. want to create a masterpiece while limiting yourself so you have something to be proud of

other than those there is really no excuse to want to use mspaint aside from just liking it

I think a man on an island with a coconut tree survives longer than a man on an island with a painted masterpiece.


Also, making fastfood takes less time than making a traditional Chinese dish
But.. a traditional Chinese dish tastes allot better

We got all the time in the world, why speed up the process?
Quality must always be more important than quantity

What use is it for an animation to be made quickly?
It's not like the watchers would notice.
It's not like the audience would give a standing ovation for a cartoon purely because it was done in a few seconds.
Actually.. art always gets allot more admiration if the viewer understands how much time someone "wasted" on something.

Art isn't about time, it's about the love you put into it

i wholeheartedly agree with this statement but will say that it's better to take an efficient route when you're on a time limit or something

[mexifry]

You sure? It'd only take a couple of minutes... and I'm pretty sure it should work on a mac...

Well if it will take you a short time, then go for it.
I just dont want to be a burden.

On an off note.

How do I customize tool bar in mac Version of CS3?

On an off note.

How do I customize tool bar in mac Version of CS3?

Sorry to be a bother to everyone, but I answer all my own questions.

Thanks for uh... support.
lol