thread of bad

[etch]

that shit is completely staged

[rtil]

false

[etch]

the men's faces are never blurred. the men almost never run away and everybody is always really calm. what makes you sure it's different from anything like cheaters

[Kooh]

the men's faces are never blurred. the men almost never run away and everybody is always really calm. what makes you sure it's different from anything like cheaters

Somebody died

[etch]

i must have missed that

[rtil]

the men's faces are never blurred. the men almost never run away and everybody is always really calm. what makes you sure it's different from anything like cheaters

never heard of cheaters, but everyone on that show was arrested, booked and went up for trial. most weren't convicted, however - usually due to cases being thrown out on the basis of entrapment. there are a few instances where the person tries to run away and is met by police at the front/back door.

you really think local police would waste their time being part of a staged show? they were televised sting operations.

[put]

they aren't sent to prison, but their lifes are completely ruined, they won't be able to find a job ever again

[Kooh]

they aren't sent to prison, but their lifes are completely ruined, they won't be able to find a job ever again

^

[bd648]

I seriously wonder how the idea for that show came up.

[Kött]

Collective hatred. Pretty much anyone would punch a pedo.
The exploitation of a common enemy is a frequently used concept in the media. It's kinda like the holocaust but not quite as profitable.

[rtil]

and ratings of course!

[Kött]

By profitable I was referring to the ratings rather than the trials. I think it's amazing that you can be busted for a crime that's so far from being committed. But what's even more severe is the aforementioned fact of completely ruining your reputation. Being marked as a pedo is equal to a death penalty in most countries and by that I am ironically, especially referring to first world countries.
I can't say that I feel sorry for these people because the expression of sympathy itself would most likely be considered completely wrong by the majority but I have always felt disgusted by this kind of concept way more than for the people who fall victim to it.

[rtil]

well like i said most of them don't actually end up in prison and some judges throw these cases out because they consider them entrapment. but i don't agree with you saying that these crimes are "so far" from being committed. they show up with booze, food, condoms.. sometimes no condoms, sex toys, lingerie. some of them drove for hours to meet girls who said they were 13 years old - married men in their late 30's, 40's, 50's. whether or not they were going to commit a sexual crime, their intentions were certainly clear.

sure they make a spectacle out of it, but better they get embarrassed on national tv than to ruin the life of a child. they were kind of asking for it, attempting such a stupid act that any sensible adult would know better not to.

[Kött]

That might be true. I personally don't know as much about this format as we don't have a German equivalent in my country. However, the point that I was trying to make is that under these particular circumstances, there was never a chance for the crime to be committed in the first case and additionally, what distinguishes these cases from the severe ones is that a lot of seduction was involved. As a spectator you are only introduced to the essential details such as "the girl has clearly indicated that she is underage" and "the decoy never asked for pornographic images in the first place" which are pretty vague statements considering they somehow arranged to invite the potential predator at some point, clearly giving off completely different vibes. They might actually have sent them photos of the decoys beforehand, entirely putting their age in the background covered by their clearly older appearance. Males are generally attracted to younger females, it's a goddamn fact. These guys simply seem to feel save because they have somewhat of the girls' consent. The "sensible maturity" that they are lacking is simply based on their stupidity and the fact that they seem to think ignoring the law is all right under certain circumstances.
In fact, the message of the entire show is so typically American that it makes me want to throw up despite the fact that I am probably one of the guys who would punch a pedo. But my problem in this case is that these people seem to be put on a level with people who kidnap 4 year olds in the park and brutally rape them. And even if some of the spectators can see through this facade, their chances of finding a job and living a decent life after these records have aired on national tv are even worse than those of a serial child rapist whose cases were handled discretely instead of being blasted through the media.

[Kött]

Yes, but moreover it is simply illegal, period.
These guys know fairly well what they are doing. The only problem that I have with it, is that the common hatred for pedophiles is used to spread these pretty basic messages, as, for instance, break the law and we'll get your ass. This basic concept of institutionalized karma is actually used quite often in the modern media. A couple of days ago I saw one of these shows about bizarre deadly accidents and no matter what kind of story they were telling, in each case the one who fell victim to it had done something bad beforehand, such as adultery or attempted murder, and was clearly stigmatized as the asshole before the accident was illustrated.
And why? Because it's the kind of shit that people dig, even though it probably isn't even true in most cases. But they are dead, lost and forgotten, their names have been changed and the show has no relevance and no impact for individuals.
In "catch a predator" we have an entire stage set up, systematically crushing people's existence to spread divine messages such as 'don't fuck with the law'.
It's like a children's show illustrating how justice always prevails with a setup for adults that exploits a group which everyone is socially forced to hate and, even though I feel no sympathy for these people whatsoever, I seriously find that a bit fucked up.

[rtil]

That might be true. I personally don't know as much about this format as we don't have a German equivalent in my country. However, the point that I was trying to make is that under these particular circumstances, there was never a chance for the crime to be committed in the first case and additionally, what distinguishes these cases from the severe ones is that a lot of seduction was involved. As a spectator you are only introduced to the essential details such as "the girl has clearly indicated that she is underage" and "the decoy never asked for pornographic images in the first place" which are pretty vague statements considering they somehow arranged to invite the potential predator at some point, clearly giving off completely different vibes. They might actually have sent them photos of the decoys beforehand, entirely putting their age in the background covered by their clearly older appearance. Males are generally attracted to younger females, it's a goddamn fact. These guys simply seem to feel save because they have somewhat of the girls' consent. The "sensible maturity" that they are lacking is simply based on their stupidity and the fact that they seem to think ignoring the law is all right under certain circumstances.
In fact, the message of the entire show is so typically American that it makes me want to throw up despite the fact that I am probably one of the guys who would punch a pedo. But my problem in this case is that these people seem to be put on a level with people who kidnap 4 year olds in the park and brutally rape them. And even if some of the spectators can see through this facade, their chances of finding a job and living a decent life after these records have aired on national tv are even worse than those of a serial child rapist whose cases were handled discretely instead of being blasted through the media.

do you know what entrapment is? i have explained this twice - that many judges throw these cases out because of it. entrapment is when the judge believes that the prosecution has been lured into attempting to commit a crime and therefore the case is bunk. you don't have to keep harping on the fact that the crime was never committed - i am well aware of this. that is why it blurs a line between premeditation and entrapment.

however you are partially wrong about how the predators get the hook. first of all, the first message is always sent by the predator. the predator then begins soliciting the alleged minor. the predator is never forced to agree to anything. they choose to say the things they say and make their own decisions. at no point is the decoy the one doing the solicitation. if "seduction" is merely setting up a lure, then yes they are guilty of that. but they don't go around actively messaging pedophiles with seductive solicitations for sex. legally, they cannot do that - otherwise they could face an actual entrapment conviction - it would be the equivalent of someone going door to door soliciting sex.

still think they have something to hide? Perverted Justice puts all their chatlogs online available for anyone to read. don't believe me? go to their website and see for yourself. besides the predators and the things they bring with them coming to the house, along with any confession, the chatlogs, phone calls and images they send to decoys are the only evidence they have to file.

your blanket statement "males are generally attracted to younger females" i would say is patently false - i know plenty of men who are into women their own age or older, sure looking young is one thing but being young is another. most men i know wouldn't even think of being with an underage girl.

as far as i'm concerned there isn't much of a message to "to catch a predator" - it's more of like a spectator sport with public humiliation. sure, it's kind of stupid. and you can hate american culture all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the show, despite its lack of taste, staved off thousands of pedophiles from attempting these kinds of acts because of its popularity. in fact, they stopped making returns to the same areas because they were too afraid to try to lure children online and weren't getting enough "customers", as it were.

these people are the scum of the earth and if a handful of them being destroyed on national television is what it takes to help snuff out child predators online then so be it.

also, don't think that convicted child predators get it off easy - they are put in a national database of sexual predators available online and offline publicly, are tracked everywhere they go, and are marked for life. everyone who employs them or works with them can easily find out what they did.

you should really do some research on american criminal investigation, institutions and processing before you start blabbering about it.

[Kött]

No, I didn't know that any private person can look up the registry of sexual offenders in the US. Because I simply didn't think it would go that far... Prevention of future criminal acts might be a good counter argument for any of these means but how easy do you think that it comes to false accusations and vigilantism, even way after the conviction of a perpetrator? Just take this scenario: A guy with the same name as an a formerly convicted perpetrator, a group of hooligans who need a something to release their anger and a random guy making one of those tweets of facebook posts. I did check some of the registry entries for US sexual offenders and the actual offense is not always clear and can easily be misinterpreted. It might be acceptable or even useful if certain employers such as the heads of child cares or schools are informed about the backgrounds of these people but making this information accessible to everyone who has an internet connection seems just a tad over the top.

Oye, I don't know how much research the average person does before making a post on these boards but I usually come here to enjoy myself. Sometimes this does include arguing but I don't feel obliged to inform myself about every single detail about a topic before embarking into a discussion.

[Sheepy]

Debating about pedophiles.

[rtil]

No, I didn't know that any private person can look up the registry of sexual offenders in the US. Because I simply didn't think it would go that far... Prevention of future criminal acts might be a good counter argument for any of these means but how easy do you think that it comes to false accusations and vigilantism, even way after the conviction of a perpetrator? Just take this scenario: A guy with the same name as an a formerly convicted perpetrator, a group of hooligans who need a something to release their anger and a random guy making one of those tweets of facebook posts. I did check some of the registry entries for US sexual offenders and the actual offense is not always clear and can easily be misinterpreted. It might be acceptable or even useful if certain employers such as the heads of child cares or schools are informed about the backgrounds of these people but making this information accessible to everyone who has an internet connection seems just a tad over the top.

making up fictional scenarios is easy, but i'm not budging on a hypothetical. i need to see real evidence that a sex offender registry is a bad thing, and multiple, repeated cases of the same problems. even then your second example is ridiculous and extremely unlikely. and at the end of the day, trying to get rid of a service that does good for the public simply because it has the potential to be abused is the worst excuse to try and get rid of it.

as far as i'm concerned, all sexual predators who are rightly convicted deserve to be put into that database and should have to live with the consequences of their actions. i'd also imagine it discourages repeat offenses because they know they won't get away with it and the sentence will be more harsh the next time around.

Oye, I don't know how much research the average person does before making a post on these boards but I usually come here to enjoy myself. Sometimes this does include arguing but I don't feel obliged to inform myself about every single detail about a topic before embarking into a discussion.

that's fine, but if you're not knowledgeable on a subject don't make shit up about it. you can still discuss it without doing that.

[ZennyPLUS]

Debating about pedophiles.

Tune in at 7 to hearing about Sinitron's german people woes.